BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

And posts after posts of women who come on to say...ah, I see clearly now

Good grief , this isn't some playground scrap. Na na na na na

It's real people and their lives at stake

Ah, well, to redress that, every single woman in my extended family, teens to pensioners, plus a good chunk of my work colleagues think we're bang on.

Always encourage people be more Magdalen, me. Courage calls to courage and those erstwhile misogynists who get a kick out of trying to put the frighteners on women will be disappointed.

Solidarity with women ✊

I think you might be in for a long wait, Annie.

I’m sure we can polish our agas,, or ride our ponies and shout at the servants or something, to pass the time while we wait

Yes, well communication is overrated anyway, AskingQuestionsAllTheTime so words might as well mean whatever I decide they mean. Or as my favourite childhood poet, Christian Morgenstern says

Scariboo

The Winglewangle phlutters
through widowadowood,
the crimson Fingoor splutters
and scary screaks the Scrood.

I've heard people making black jokes about "When Orwell wrote 1984, he didn't mean you to use it as an instruction manual", but this is the first time I've heard the suggestion that Humpty Dumpty in Through the Looking Glass ought to be taken as a serious treatise on linguistics.

( "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.")

Me, I'm still here, longing to know from jj about what is "middle class" about a woman prisoner who was raped by a male prisoner taking her case to judicial review.

"All words are made up. That's what words are for."

And there I thought words were for conveying what it was intended should be conveyed, in a way which could be comprehended by the reader/auditor and with as little ambiguity as possible.

(Don't mind me, I've made a life-long study of language at several levels. There are some times I am more astounded by truly weird misapprehensions than at other times, is all. Or as CaraDuneRedux so sensibly expressed it, "fizzywig".)

So she went into the garden to cut a cabbage leaf, to make an apple pie; and at the same time a great she-bear coming up the street, pops its head into the shop. 'What! no soap?' So he died, and she very imprudently married the barber; and there were present the Picninnies, and the Joblillies, and the Garyulies, and the grand Panjandrum himself, with the little round button at top; and they all fell to playing the game of catch as catch can, till the gunpowder ran out at the heels of their boots. (Samuel Foote, January 1720 – 21 October 1777, making fun of Charles Macklin)

The greatest trick GCs played was convincing TRAs all we do is post on Mumsnet

And that the vast majority of women are GC once they are aware of the issues...

The greatest trick GCs played was convincing TRAs all we do is post on Mumsnet

Yup!

This place is the departures board, but the GC trains call at all stations

She hasn't changed the Equalities Act and the Women's Minister made it quite clear in the Lords that the government believes in the vast majority of cases trans people have a right to use single sex spaces inline with their aquired gender. She's also made it much cheaper to legally change sex and from the recent comments from the Womens Minister about reducing bureacracy and the paper trail in the system it sounds like it's going to be much easier as well.

The GRA stays the same as it always has been, but a bit cheaper and with some of the application process moved online.

A medical diagnosis is still required.
A medical report about treatment received or planned is still required.
The spousal exit clause remains in place.

I think that's about as good a result as we could have hoped for.

As for the Equality Act, we just need some clarification about how the single sex exemptions should work. If they protect women, there is no reason for the Act to be changed.

You don't need to know the posh words and politics to be a victim of patriarchy and a supporter of women's rights. You n don't need a badge or to sign a pledge to act as a feminist. Gender critical is just one slant or take on feminism, not a movement, every woman who fights for women's rights is fighting against gender assumptions

I'm not aware that was a case that originated from the gender critical movement. I must have missed the crowdfunder.

You're over complicating it. She's a woman who was a victim of a man who abused self-ID. Simply by being a woman she's part of the 'us' who feminism is for.

jj, you still haven't answered the question - what is "middle class" about a woman prisoner who was raped by a male prisoner taking her case to judicial review?

(And women have been campaigning for women in prison for a very long, long time. Just because you don't care about women prisoners, and so haven't looked, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.)

You think women on here don't care about the conditions for women in prison? Let alone having convicted rapists locked in with them?

Is that your genuine view?

Blimey.

I would love to see some quality research on detransition. What he proposed was not that as an independent ethics committee found. And my comment was more about the efficacy of fighting through the courts.

Wrong again. The original ethics standard committee of the university approved the project. It was then disallowed under a pretext and the admission of their fear that the results might bring controversy and vitriol to the university. Which says a lot about the other side - no respect whatsoever for the academic process, which allows for robust disagreement and debate, rebuttals, disapproval, corrections, withdrawals, even slugfests (albeit terribly polite ones). But that's not what the university worried about. They worried about being subjected to harassment campaigns and bullying like those that went into overdrive every time a women's rights meeting was organised.

jj, you still haven't explained what is "middle class" about a woman prisoner who was raped by a male prisoner taking her case to judicial review? I'd be fascinated to know.

Liz Truss has just completely turned you over.

Fucked Stonewall over more like, and every other company who replaced the law with Stonewall Law in anticipation of self id being introduced.

It's been very illuminating, especially the evolution as the thread progresses.

Yes the tone has certainly been lowered and I apologise for my role in that. It just gets a bit wearing and frustrating when people continually misrepresent and lie about things you've said in order to try and present you as an apologist for sexual offenders or whatever other slur someone is trying to concoct.

All words are made up. That's what words are for.

I think you may be confusing socially constructed with entirely arbitrary.

Just because a German speaker calls bread "Brot" and a French speaker calls it "pain" doesn't mean you can suddenly decide to wander round calling it "fizzywig" and hope that in doing so, the local baker's shop will actually understand what the hell you mean.

(I am suddenly reminded of the joke about playing chess with a pigeon - "Never play chess with a pigeon. It will crap all over the board then strut around with its chest puffed out thinking it's won.")

No GRA reform but more funding for clinics is surely a win for everyone except those who wanted self ID but aren't actually dysphoric?

Clear schools guidance, followed by mermaids etc expunging the 'born in the wrong body' type of stuff is surely a win for everybody who has children's best interests at heart.

The admins charge is less, wow

But you know what, that don't matter. What matters is that you can have your certification but the equality act still holds and still says that single sex, irrespective of legal gender, is sometimes what matters