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Original poster

The strategy of relinquishing the word "woman"

218 replies

GratedExposure · 20/10/2020 12:01

This is something I wonder about in a number of contexts (I'm not advocating it, just wondering): is anyone thinking that the best strategy here is to leave the word, and begin to label certain awards/events as "natal female" awards/events?

I know there are many arguments against this (first, why should we be having to start fighting anew for things which should never have been taken?). But at what point do we walk away and start again? The most obvious example is sport, because if there were "wom*n's" events (increasingly colonised by males) and "natal female" events, most of the strong female athletes would surely opt into the latter?

Are any organisations working towards this?

It's basically the same as the third space idea, but we'd be having to be the ones moving to a third space (wrong, but maybe better than the alternative...)...?

Is this crazy talk?

OP posts:
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SuzieCarmichael · 20/10/2020 19:30

The deletions on this thread are unreal. I don’t post a lot on this forum, I read occasionally. I’ve never seen a thread so pepper potted with bullet holes. I had assumed that by the time I reached the end of the thread MNHQ would have posted some kind of response / warning / clarification about what they expect from posters. Bit shocked that hasn’t happened tbh. Hard to know what to make of this - it leaves a rather uncomfortable impression of some kind of superior force which swoops in and Swiss-cheeses a thread and bogs off again. Would be interested to know what the deleted posts said because without them this thread is a bit pointless tbh. The general gist is ‘hell no’, anyway, I gathered that much. (And rightly so - nobody should aspire to the Vichy role ...)

Jux · 20/10/2020 19:20

@BrassicaRabbit

Whilst on the one hand, the word female is increasingly used by people who are not female to describe themselves, on the other, use of the word female can get a woman banned from twitter (for tweeting "only females get cervical cancer"). It's almost as if the people pushing this assault on language and blurring of boundaries are doing so for a reason that's actually got bugger all to do with the rights of trans people.
Conspiracy theory number 1 in my life: I suspect trans rights is a vehicle for removing the age of consent, for the removal of any legal reference to rape, in preparation for returning to the times when women were not uppity andnot allowed to vote and not allowed to own goods and chattels except through the kindness of their husbands, fathers, brothers, whatever man is there to ensure she isn't silly with it.
EvenSupposing · 20/10/2020 19:17

@JonasKahnwald

What were the deletions for?
I guess ultimately they are pour encourager les autres?
MondayYogurt · 20/10/2020 19:16

Just to reiterate, because plenty of times TRAs will say "But no one is trying to confuse sex and gender, it's all in your head you crazy terfs."

The strategy of relinquishing the word "woman"
The strategy of relinquishing the word "woman"
The strategy of relinquishing the word "woman"
Lazt · 20/10/2020 19:15

Feminine or masculine presenting transgender person?

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 20/10/2020 19:04

when discussing subjects where sex is relevant, the words 'woman' and 'man' are both completely adequate, and easily understood by all english speaking people (even those who pretend to believe that a 'woman is a shifting constellation of sexist stereotypes', or summat)

of course there are some people who don't really want people to be able to easily understand the matter under discussion innit?

Floisme · 20/10/2020 19:03

I saw the first posts at the time Jonas and I've still no idea.
As far as I remember, they used the approved terminology. I nearly quoted one of them.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/10/2020 18:55

@JonasKahnwald

What were the deletions for?
I don't know. Maybe some were using non-approved but less rohypnol-like alternatives to TW?Confused
JonasKahnwald · 20/10/2020 18:52

What were the deletions for?

Original poster
GratedExposure · 20/10/2020 18:45

@CharlieParley, that's a very helpful post - thank you. As a relative newcomer to many aspects of this, I appreciate it.

OP posts:
EvenSupposing · 20/10/2020 18:41

Scared of deckchairs?

EvenSupposing · 20/10/2020 18:41

Risk of sanity?

ErrolTheDragon · 20/10/2020 18:40

Why avoid the remaining posts? Confused

Escapeplanning · 20/10/2020 18:38

Blimey so many deletions.

Avoiding.

EvenSupposing · 20/10/2020 18:33

@ErrolTheDragon

I loved your deckchair analogy, EvenSupposing. Perhaps the problem was that you used an adjective implying a lack of suitably feminine shaving standards?
Yes. But in the analogy the bloke was just a bloke not any...other kind of...entity.
ErrolTheDragon · 20/10/2020 18:25

@VortexofBloggery

They can have "c*s" though, that's not being used.
Yes it is, trying to redefine and misuse that as well doesn't serve people who want to use it properly.
VortexofBloggery · 20/10/2020 18:21

They can have "c*s" though, that's not being used.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/10/2020 18:20

I loved your deckchair analogy, EvenSupposing.
Perhaps the problem was that you used an adjective implying a lack of suitably feminine shaving standards?

EvenSupposing · 20/10/2020 18:17

Totally the sign of a rational world though.

EvenSupposing · 20/10/2020 18:15

@ErrolTheDragon

Blimey - I'd not scrolled back, I hadn't realised how many deletions there were. I don't remember seeing much other than women asserting their rights. Confused
I had a post deleted for talking abpit deckchairs Confused

Goddamn you transphobic dogwhistle beach furniture

Dreeple · 20/10/2020 17:50

“Transwomen simply are” anything but!

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 20/10/2020 17:42

Nope
Inch mile etc (& for me it’s not an inch it’s more like a light year)

Women are adult human females & transwomen (not my preferred term...) are not.

Floisme · 20/10/2020 17:37

@ErrolTheDragon

Blimey - I'd not scrolled back, I hadn't realised how many deletions there were. I don't remember seeing much other than women asserting their rights. Confused
Absolutely bizarre. I can never remember deleted posts very well but I do know I was about to post on the first page that ItsAllGoingToBeFine had said everything I wanted to say. But I was called away and now I've come back to see that post has gone. Confused
Antibles · 20/10/2020 17:22

Making people say that 2+2=5 is totalitarian control. It is done on purpose to show that their boot is on your face.

What michelle says about playing nice only identifying you as a mug whose boundaries can be further breached is spot on.

Delphinium20 · 20/10/2020 17:12

Another way to look at is to wonder why we are all so squeamish to use "sex" as a the clarifier. There is the male sex and the female sex and because the function of these differences solely exist for the reproduction of the human species, it's silly to pretend sexual reproduction isn't the heart of this difference. All other differences, choices or similarities are due to personalities, culture, feelings, genetics, etc. Those differences are why we say to our children, "Be yourself! You don't need to conform to societal expectations."

I get that gender reveal parties may be impacted by insisting on the word sexWink, but I'd prefer to live in a world that used "sex reveal parties," to a world that says, "you were born in the wrong body because gender...."