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Original poster

The strategy of relinquishing the word "woman"

218 replies

GratedExposure · 20/10/2020 12:01

This is something I wonder about in a number of contexts (I'm not advocating it, just wondering): is anyone thinking that the best strategy here is to leave the word, and begin to label certain awards/events as "natal female" awards/events?

I know there are many arguments against this (first, why should we be having to start fighting anew for things which should never have been taken?). But at what point do we walk away and start again? The most obvious example is sport, because if there were "wom*n's" events (increasingly colonised by males) and "natal female" events, most of the strong female athletes would surely opt into the latter?

Are any organisations working towards this?

It's basically the same as the third space idea, but we'd be having to be the ones moving to a third space (wrong, but maybe better than the alternative...)...?

Is this crazy talk?

OP posts:
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DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 21/10/2020 02:03

No. Hold the line sisters.

testing987654321 · 21/10/2020 01:24

Blimey, the start of this thread looks odd now. If I hadn't read the messages at the time, I would assume that a lot of highly offensive comments were made, so many deletions.

GoldfishParade · 21/10/2020 00:27

As women we will be continuing to use the word women. The word belongs to us. It is not up to us to make more room for born men

GrinitchSpinach · 21/10/2020 00:22

The THIN END OF THE WEDGE, my high school French teacher always warned. Every time I see the poster here with that username, I think of Madame and the lifelong lessons she taught us...

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 20/10/2020 23:55

Some people will always want what other people have. Even if the thing that is had changes.

Toseland · 20/10/2020 23:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SaucyHorse · 20/10/2020 23:45

I know that I didn't

b) mention any specific person at all
c) use any banned words

To be honest if either of my 2 posts would be deleted I would have thought it would be the other one. I thought it was pretty mild.

I also remember the deckchair post and I am seriously baffled as to why on earth that would be deleted.

The moderators have certainly been ramping it up today, seemingly without rhyme or reason.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/10/2020 23:32

We can't give an inch and MUST stop being kind.

Or rather, we must direct our kindness primarily to the women and children who need it.

DontBuyANewMumCashmere · 20/10/2020 23:30

Thank you Errol that's a good idea.

Highfalutinlootin · 20/10/2020 23:29

The state of this thread. Nearly every comment has been censored due to woke capture. Pathetic and sad.

No. Total slippery slope. Trans activists will never stop and will just keep demanding whatever term accurately describes women. They don't care which word, they care about being called whatever women are called. Soon it will be "trans women are cis women." We can't give an inch and MUST stop being kind.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/10/2020 23:24

Try reporting your deleted message to ask directly. I'm pretty sure @MNHQ does not notify them to queries made in a post.

DontBuyANewMumCashmere · 20/10/2020 23:21

I was deleted for mentioning a well known out trans woman and that she described herself as a cis female.
I even used 'herself' to talk about this person.

I then suggested there wasn't a word we could use that they wouldn't want to use, and I've pretty much typed exactly what I typed earlier because I genuinely haven't broken any rules unless we're now not allowed to repeat what any famous trans people have said on twitter? Or name people?!

@mnhq please would you be able to let me know how this broke rules? Thanks

SaucyHorse · 20/10/2020 23:19

My first deletion on MN ever! No email explaining what rule I apparently broke, though. I've been here for ages and said basically the same thing many times before. But veterans of pissing off Big Brother, what is the procedure here, do the mods not have to tell you what rule you broke?

Thelnebriati · 20/10/2020 22:51

Sex is a protected characteristic Angry

MilkandWater · 20/10/2020 22:33

Yes, why is this topic so controversial, @MNHQ? Are you also of the opinion that women should #Be Kind while allowing men to rewrite biology and deny women’s safety, language and lived reality?

PenguindreamsofDraco · 20/10/2020 22:10

Why does this thread look like Swiss cheese @MNHQ? For people observing that the word woman doesn't include men?

nepeta · 20/10/2020 20:39

Do a reversal on this thread and ask if relinquishing the word 'man' might be a good strategy, and you realise how very sexist it is that we must have a discussion which men do not have to have at all.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 20/10/2020 19:57

16% deletion rate.
Is this a record?

We know what woman means.
Adult human female.

I'm a woman. No one has consulted me about changing the name of the sex class to which I belong.

PicsInRed · 20/10/2020 19:54

Yeah nah.

MondayYogurt · 20/10/2020 19:49

@SuzieCarmichael

The deletions on this thread are unreal. I don’t post a lot on this forum, I read occasionally. I’ve never seen a thread so pepper potted with bullet holes. I had assumed that by the time I reached the end of the thread MNHQ would have posted some kind of response / warning / clarification about what they expect from posters. Bit shocked that hasn’t happened tbh. Hard to know what to make of this - it leaves a rather uncomfortable impression of some kind of superior force which swoops in and Swiss-cheeses a thread and bogs off again. Would be interested to know what the deleted posts said because without them this thread is a bit pointless tbh. The general gist is ‘hell no’, anyway, I gathered that much. (And rightly so - nobody should aspire to the Vichy role ...)
They can delete as much as they want, the thoughts in our heads remain. Reality remains.
BasiliskStare · 20/10/2020 19:48

so no . do not give up the word woman because a small amount of people want to appropriate it. Just my opinion

BasiliskStare · 20/10/2020 19:40

It seems to me that in Anglo Saxon - Wifman meant woman and WerMan meant man. During those times women could own property etc. ( then dismissed by those pesky Normans ) In any rate - woman is a perfectly good word for an Adult human female. Job done. Anyone else wants a word for a woman who used to be a man - your job to think of it - don't tell me I need to be cis or natal or whatever. I never thought this would bother me - but I am increasing so.

Delphinium20 · 20/10/2020 19:40

I don't believe an English language governing body (imagine the fights as to who gets top authority, the UK Times, NYTimes, AP, Chicago Manual of Style, Cape Times, Belfast...Merriam Webster?? They might call it the English Major Wars) has done a poll of half the English speakers.

Did half of all English speakers agree to this change of the word that once defined them for centuries? Will there be a vote on it if the polls are too close? Perhaps an FAQ is in order to help explain it all. What about second language English speakers? Do they get 1/2 a vote?

Delphinium20 · 20/10/2020 19:36

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

when discussing subjects where sex is relevant, the words 'woman' and 'man' are both completely adequate, and easily understood by all english speaking people (even those who pretend to believe that a 'woman is a shifting constellation of sexist stereotypes', or summat)

of course there are some people who don't really want people to be able to easily understand the matter under discussion innit?

Agreed. From female we get the adult and the child forms: woman / girl. Making these more convoluted does a number on language translations.
AlwaysLatte · 20/10/2020 19:33

This is a joke, I assume. I'm a woman and proud of it.