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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jk Rowling and trans issues... talk to me!

490 replies

bunters · 20/10/2020 10:17

Ok mumsnet, please talk to me. I’ve noticed that the feminist section of mumsnet seems disproportionately preoccupied with trans issues and I’d like to understand it. I opened the feminism chat today and topic after topic related to trans this, gender that

It is an indisputable fact that women suffer horrific domestic violence in this country (and worldwide), at the hands of men. Women are regularly beaten, raped, controlled, murdered and otherwise abused by men every single day. It’s so standard that it barely makes news when it happens, unless the crime is truly shocking.

This whole trans hysteria feels to me like if the government were to start a huge campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of choking on peanuts, while ignoring the huge damage caused by alcohol and tobacco.

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights. With her money and popularity she could have done any number of things to help women in a huge way. What has this achieved, other than pitting feminists against each other? Even if you believe she has a point, surely you can see that whatever ‘danger’ trans people pose to women is minuscule compared to the very real danger men openly pose to women every day?

We all know that men have felt entitled to take what they want when they want for centuries, and they don’t need to dress as a woman to do it. The women gang raped to death (can you even imagine the horror) in India weren’t attacked by men in dresses. I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

When I look at my beautiful, tiny daughter I don’t worry about some trans person hurting her, I worry about the very likely situation when a man hurts her. In fact, I’d worry more that she’ll be trans and be hurt by someone before I’d worry about a trans person hurting her. When I walk alone at night somewhere, my mind isn’t imagining trans people waiting in dark doorways to rape me, it’s men. Men being bloody men.

If we accept that men don’t need to be trans and gain access to women’s spaces to hurt us, and we accept that trans people are way more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the population (and so really are in need of help and protection as much as women), why do trans issues continue to cause such anger?

And if you do feel justified, what tangible thing are you doing to help women, besides moaning on mumsnet and signing petitions?

OP posts:
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BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 20/10/2020 19:17

i mean no one really believes people can change sex right?

anyone who says TWAW is just doing it for the woke cookies

peer pressure: it's a terrible thing people

it can lead to god awful hair cuts and pretending to believe nonsense on the internet

DialSquare · 20/10/2020 19:16

Why do you assume HouseOfGoldandBones was addressing you and not the OP Quaagars?

Quaagars · 20/10/2020 19:12

If, after reading it, you have any questions (although it is very thorough, so can't imagine you will)

Whose, JK's? I already have.

so can't imagine you will), then, if you ask nicely, someone may be willing to use their valuable time to assist you

I don't even know where to begin with that bit lol.
Ask nicely, what do I have to be nice now? I thought that was sometimes frowned on, that we don't have to be nice on here?
Also the assumption that I haven't read it, or if I have and I still haven't "read it right" some wisdomous posters will educate me into "reading it right."
Okaay.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 20/10/2020 19:08

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one

I would suggest that accepting males are women means you display only a passing familiarity with reality

good heavens

HouseOfGoldandBones · 20/10/2020 19:07

I'd suggest you read her essay on the subject.

If, after reading it, you have any questions (although it is very thorough, so can't imagine you will), then, if you ask nicely, someone may be willing to use their valuable time to assist you

FloralBunting · 20/10/2020 19:07

Sure, Quagg. I was helpful to you on the previous page and tried to outline your perspective without any bias or snark. Maybe you missed it.

But yep, laughing at the irony of critiquing pedantry was a bit childish. I consider myself chastened.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/10/2020 19:07

@RedDogsBeg

You are the gift that keeps on giving Quaggers, you are the one saying that outside birth sex doesn't align with the inside and yet you cannot or will not state what it is that it doesn't align with so come on enlighten us with your great wisdom.
Yeah, but even if she does that's still not what Cis means. Grin
RedDogsBeg · 20/10/2020 19:06

You are the gift that keeps on giving Quaggers, you are the one saying that outside birth sex doesn't align with the inside and yet you cannot or will not state what it is that it doesn't align with so come on enlighten us with your great wisdom.

Winesalot · 20/10/2020 19:04

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.

Actually, this is where you are wrong. By changing the meaning of the word woman, you are now accepting less protection than you should have. Because you give away women’s sports. Because you give away women’s ability to have females represent their interest in supposedly sex balanced boards, panels and in roles specifically set aside for women (of the female kind). Because you have given away other women’s rights to talk about themselves with accuracy. Because you have given away the right to have our crimes recorded accurately.

Quaagars · 20/10/2020 19:04

fast moving that was to floral

midgebabe · 20/10/2020 19:04

@jellyfrizz

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.

It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman anymore, or a subset if woman.
I still am one, it's not magically been taken away from me.

It does affect me though. If ‘woman’ isn’t based on biology then I don’t think I am one. How can I tell?

Exactly. What am I?
Quaagars · 20/10/2020 19:03

Ookkay, well thought out comeback WTF lol, default playground mode as per Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 20/10/2020 19:03
  • There you go, better? From what I can gather, just means not trans Kind of like being straight means not gay/lesbian/bi*

The bi bit is better, but the 'just means not trans' is still as false as ever.
So far, it seems to me we've established you don't know what 'Cis' means and don't know or care what a woman is or isn't.

jellyfrizz · 20/10/2020 19:03

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.

It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman anymore, or a subset if woman.
I still am one, it's not magically been taken away from me.

It does affect me though. If ‘woman’ isn’t based on biology then I don’t think I am one. How can I tell?

FloralBunting · 20/10/2020 19:02

pedantic

😂🤣😂

Sorry. Slipped out.

Quaagars · 20/10/2020 18:59

I notice how @Quaagars has nothing to say about the bisexual erasure here.

Yes, should have mentioned bi in there too, wasn't intentional erasure for goodness sake.
Way to be pedantic though and miss what I was actually saying.

There you go, better?
From what I can gather, just means not trans
Kind of like being straight means not gay/lesbian/bi

Quaagars · 20/10/2020 18:57

and whether or not it aligns with what's on the inside, the liver or heart maybe?

Yes.
Yes, all trans people have a misalignment with their heart and their liver.
Possibly their kidneys too Grin
Who'd have known?!
That doesn't deserve the piss ripped out of it too? Or is that getting overlooked lol?!

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 20/10/2020 18:56

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RedDogsBeg · 20/10/2020 18:54

The point has flown straight over your head Quaggers the poster was taking the piss out of your absurd comment about birth sex being on the outside and whether or not it aligns with what's on the inside, the liver or heart maybe? You've yet to tell us what our outside birth sex does or doesn't align with on the inside of our bodies to determine whether we are trans or not.

OldCrone · 20/10/2020 18:53

@Quaagars

How is me accepting trans women meaning that I'm suddenly a subset of woman?

What do you mean by 'accepting trans women'? What are you 'accepting'?

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.
It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman anymore, or a subset if woman.
I still am one, it's not magically been taken away from me.

When you use the word 'woman', what do you mean? What is your definition of 'woman'? Because if you use the dictionary definition of 'adult female human', then obviously 'transwomen' are not women.
PrimalLass · 20/10/2020 18:52

OP you need to do a LOT aid reading. I don't think it's possible to grasp the issues unless you spend some time embroiled in the discussion.

PostItJoyWeek · 20/10/2020 18:51

But the word woman has then become useless as a category Quag Surely there are better ways to help a trans person feel comfortable.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/10/2020 18:50

@Quaagars

How is me accepting trans women meaning that I'm suddenly a subset of woman?

What do you mean by 'accepting trans women'? What are you 'accepting'?

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.
It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman anymore, or a subset if woman.
I still am one, it's not magically been taken away from me.

It's not all about you. It's not about any individual woman. It's about women as a class. If you don't understand why that's important yet then frankly you've been wasting your time on a feminism and women ps rights board.
Quaagars · 20/10/2020 18:49

Well who was it who started on the bits between the legs

That was in response to someone who didn't seem to know what birth sex on the outside meant, or was doing that pretending not to know thing, so tried to spell it out.

Quaagars · 20/10/2020 18:48

How is me accepting trans women meaning that I'm suddenly a subset of woman?

What do you mean by 'accepting trans women'? What are you 'accepting'?

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.
It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman anymore, or a subset if woman.
I still am one, it's not magically been taken away from me.

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