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Jk Rowling and trans issues... talk to me!

490 replies

bunters · 20/10/2020 10:17

Ok mumsnet, please talk to me. I’ve noticed that the feminist section of mumsnet seems disproportionately preoccupied with trans issues and I’d like to understand it. I opened the feminism chat today and topic after topic related to trans this, gender that

It is an indisputable fact that women suffer horrific domestic violence in this country (and worldwide), at the hands of men. Women are regularly beaten, raped, controlled, murdered and otherwise abused by men every single day. It’s so standard that it barely makes news when it happens, unless the crime is truly shocking.

This whole trans hysteria feels to me like if the government were to start a huge campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of choking on peanuts, while ignoring the huge damage caused by alcohol and tobacco.

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights. With her money and popularity she could have done any number of things to help women in a huge way. What has this achieved, other than pitting feminists against each other? Even if you believe she has a point, surely you can see that whatever ‘danger’ trans people pose to women is minuscule compared to the very real danger men openly pose to women every day?

We all know that men have felt entitled to take what they want when they want for centuries, and they don’t need to dress as a woman to do it. The women gang raped to death (can you even imagine the horror) in India weren’t attacked by men in dresses. I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

When I look at my beautiful, tiny daughter I don’t worry about some trans person hurting her, I worry about the very likely situation when a man hurts her. In fact, I’d worry more that she’ll be trans and be hurt by someone before I’d worry about a trans person hurting her. When I walk alone at night somewhere, my mind isn’t imagining trans people waiting in dark doorways to rape me, it’s men. Men being bloody men.

If we accept that men don’t need to be trans and gain access to women’s spaces to hurt us, and we accept that trans people are way more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the population (and so really are in need of help and protection as much as women), why do trans issues continue to cause such anger?

And if you do feel justified, what tangible thing are you doing to help women, besides moaning on mumsnet and signing petitions?

OP posts:
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Leafygreen88 · 23/10/2020 08:53

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Moonbasealpha · 23/10/2020 08:49

@gardenbird48

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then. In fact, men who sometimes dress as women. Not candidates for a GRC? It is not clear what you mean by transitioned properly but you do realise that the vast majority of male bodied transgender people make no physical or medical changes yet identify as trans? Who arbitrates on this? We’ve been told that anyone who says they are trans, is. Do you have a different take on this?
Then they have no business being in women’s spaces. The GR Panel arbitrates after a medical diagnosis. A lot do make medical changes.
Malahaha · 23/10/2020 08:42

@Pertella

"Properly transitioned"

How disgustingly transphobic of you. A trans person is who they say they are. Bigot.

Grin

As a woman, having a one sided conversation with a TW who wants to be just like me but is missing the fundamental experience of growing up female, and who will pretty much always over-ride my experiences and bring it all back down to their superior struggle, plus the walking on eggshells for fear of being labelled unintentionally transphobic I do feel something is being taken away from me - the right to free speech and the sharing of opinions without being condemned for it and punished by people claiming to be my friends and allies when in some regards they never can be - because biology.

This, a thousand times. There's a bond of shared experience between ALL women, worldwide: we understand each other on a very basic level, whether we're English, Indian, Chinese, South American etc. The TW who think that being a woman is all about presentation high heels and lipstick and looking sexy and "being kind and inclusive to us TW" really have no idea. No idea at all. And yet they want to call themselves women. It's ludicrous.

Pertella · 23/10/2020 08:26

"Properly transitioned"

How disgustingly transphobic of you. A trans person is who they say they are. Bigot.

gardenbird48 · 23/10/2020 08:08

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then. In fact, men who sometimes dress as women. Not candidates for a GRC?
It is not clear what you mean by transitioned properly but you do realise that the vast majority of male bodied transgender people make no physical or medical changes yet identify as trans?
Who arbitrates on this? We’ve been told that anyone who says they are trans, is. Do you have a different take on this?

MaudTheInvincible · 23/10/2020 07:54

Is Pip Bunce not properly trans then? Better give back those women's awards in that case.

Cailleach1 · 23/10/2020 06:31

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then.

Why? And how do you personally define "properly transitioning"?

No answer to that? How surprising.
Cocothefirst · 23/10/2020 06:08

@Moonbasealpha

because not one person is denying that transpeople exist. They exist of course. As people who are trans

Oh I don’t know, Julia Long says there’s no such thing as a trans woman.

Take that up with Julia Long. She's not identified herself on this thread.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/10/2020 01:12

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then.

Why? And how do you personally define "properly transitioning"?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/10/2020 01:10

I think you know what she means by that. Obviously we here on FWR all know that a group of people exist who believe they are the opposite sex. But we don't necessarily share that belief.

Moonbasealpha · 23/10/2020 01:08

They live full time 'as men'

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then. In fact, men who sometimes dress as women. Not candidates for a GRC?

What about 2 apples as representative of 2 horses, I mean these apples can be horses on the days you say they are. Shall we get our apples to run in the Cheltenham Cup? Giddy-up.

Moonbasealpha · 23/10/2020 01:00

because not one person is denying that transpeople exist. They exist of course. As people who are trans

Oh I don’t know, Julia Long says there’s no such thing as a trans woman.

NRatched · 22/10/2020 23:52

I can't imagine what it must be like to have your very existence as a trans person debated.

This comes up a fair bit on here, I don't understand it at all, because not one person is denying that transpeople exist. They exist of course. As people who are trans.

Never have understood how angry some people get when you refer to transwomen as transwomen instead of women. Even though really, calling them women is erasing the trans part, so in my mind, thats actually potentially transphobic as it kind of makes out 'trans' is some thing of shame that should not be uttered.

Second bits just random musings, not to do with the quoted bit.

Mind, I guess with the second bit..saying TWAW is actually going down the road of 'transpeople do not exist' too. Its closer to denying trans peoples existance than calling a transwoman a transwoman is.

Agrona · 22/10/2020 23:27

@Leafygreen88

Late to the party as ever..

OP, I've dated two men who now identify as 'trans women' specifically because the trans rights ideology means that they can do what they like unquestioned. They live full time 'as men' (as if it should mean anything, a dress does not a woman make). Both have a fetish which is sated more through the participation of others, usually unwilling and without consent.

One would rarely dress, unless there was an sexual element, but showed up to court for GBH 'as a woman' as "they wouldn't know where to put me and if they put me in the male ward I would be able to play the transphobia card".

The other, I was 15 and it later transpired he was 28. He said "the hello kitty stuff is good for picking up fucked up young goth girls because it's non threatening". I met him in the ladies after he asked to borrow my lipstick and I was a strong defender of 'outsiders'.

JKR didn't 'start a war' she wrote a blog post explaining how the rape & death threats she received after accidentally liking the wrong post made her realise that something is amiss. The abuse she received sealed her point. The blog post was never about transgender people, they merely provided the context.

Thanks for your insight. It is very informative.
Leafygreen88 · 22/10/2020 19:31

Late to the party as ever..

OP, I've dated two men who now identify as 'trans women' specifically because the trans rights ideology means that they can do what they like unquestioned. They live full time 'as men' (as if it should mean anything, a dress does not a woman make). Both have a fetish which is sated more through the participation of others, usually unwilling and without consent.

One would rarely dress, unless there was an sexual element, but showed up to court for GBH 'as a woman' as "they wouldn't know where to put me and if they put me in the male ward I would be able to play the transphobia card".

The other, I was 15 and it later transpired he was 28. He said "the hello kitty stuff is good for picking up fucked up young goth girls because it's non threatening". I met him in the ladies after he asked to borrow my lipstick and I was a strong defender of 'outsiders'.

JKR didn't 'start a war' she wrote a blog post explaining how the rape & death threats she received after accidentally liking the wrong post made her realise that something is amiss. The abuse she received sealed her point. The blog post was never about transgender people, they merely provided the context.

EdgeOfACoin · 22/10/2020 18:04

Great post, OldQueen.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/10/2020 16:38

OldQueen1969, that sounds horribly familiar.

Totally self-obsessed people make terrible friends.

PopperUppleton · 22/10/2020 16:16

Sounds exhausting OldQueen

GrinitchSpinach · 22/10/2020 16:02

the walking on eggshells for fear of being labelled unintentionally transphobic

Forgive me, but this doesn't sound like friendship to me. With a real friend, wouldn't you be confident that even if you offended her, she would let you know how she felt, give you a chance to apologise, and then accept your sincere apology and move on? It doesn't sound like you expect that would be the outcome with the friend or friends you're thinking of here.

DialSquare · 22/10/2020 15:57

Agree with PP, that is a great post OldQueen1969. It reminds me a bit of that list of what women lose if we accept TWAW. Unfortunately I can't locate it anywhere at the moment!

Winesalot · 22/10/2020 15:48

Great post OldQueen1969. There is much to ponder on there.

RedDogsBeg · 22/10/2020 15:42

Excellent post OldQueen1969, particularly this:

they covet that which is mine by accident of birth, and their lack is perceived as far greater than any negative experience I have had because of my sex.

teawamutu · 22/10/2020 15:25

So when I accept a TW as a woman I can talk about fashion etc, practical appearance issues, but not anything more fundamental because it may offend or trigger them because they covet that which is mine by accident of birth, and their lack is perceived as far greater than any negative experience I have had because of my sex.

Ironic, really. So many TW appear to think womanhood is nothing but clothes and kittens and handbags, but having lacked the socialisation and formative experiences, actively resist listening to the nitty gritty.

PotholeParadies · 22/10/2020 15:24

Well, I think she said Forth Valley. But I do not have the post in front of me so it might have been a different part of Scotland and a different counsellor altogether.

Nevertheless, we see the problem. A rape victim's welfare should be paramount. Clearly, it isn't.

PotholeParadies · 22/10/2020 15:12

@Winesalot

Yes, they are coffee.

They did not disclose they were male and were employed in a female role. Having no certificate despite it being 2014 when they got the role (or so I believe). They manage the refuge. So, a prime example of a male gaining employment set aside for a female.

Of course, unless someone actively publicises that they chose not to use that service at risk of being further traumatised, it will not go addressed. Someone may come out year's afterward and discuss it but I doubt any women having needed that service wishes to expose themselves to the barrage of hate that would come their way.

No erasure here at all though..... nothing to seeee ....

I might be making too many leaps here, but someone posted this year (on MN, maybe?) that her daughter couldn't access rape counselling because the counsellor she was assigned (having requested a female counsellor) was a transwoman.

That was in the Forth Valley.

Where has the SNP person been working since 2018? Forth Valley.

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