URGENT ACTION TONIGHT: SEX BASED RIGHTS

Talking of "Hollywood" can I just remind people that For Women Scotland are trying to launch a legal challenge to the Scottish Government's redefining the legal meaning of women. If they can't pursue the judicial review this could set precedent for laws elsewhere or at least a way for TRA lobby to pressurise the UK Government , so it's really important. More information here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4052324-ForwomenScot-have-been-granted-permission-for-a-Judicial-Review-of-the-Gender-Representation-on-Public-Boards-Act-2018

Do you really want to live in a chromosomally determined caste system?

Just bumping with this gem

I will never understand why it is ok for traumatised women to have their well documented, measurable and justifiable sex based needs refused because someone's undefined and internal gender needs trump theirs.

Ok, try again.

I’m sorry but I can't buy into the idea of treating people differently, and giving some people extra rights, because of their chromosomes.

Out of the mouths of b.....

Wow. The irony...

In fact you would see us as allies because we are breaking down the idea of a gender binary determined by one's biology

Saying that whether someone is a man or a woman is defined by anything except their biology is reinforcing the gender binary.

What would help to break it down would be saying ‘Of course dresses and makeup are for men. I’m a man & I wear them.’ The idea that someone’s personality, or how they present, makes them male, female or neither does nothing but reinforce tired old stereotypes.

334bu
Point of information, this law is not devolved to Hollywood so Scottish Mumsnetters should email too.
I suspect Hollywood might do only a marginally worse job at this point!

Thanks Maya I have emailed my (useless) SNP MP who thinks a hairdo does a woman make

Blessings from the Goddess on those keeping this thread bumped - even if you had to quote your own post to do so

In most respects our sex doesn't determine how we live our lives or what sort of person we can be.
But in some respects our sex does have an impact. Only women can get pregnant. That has an impact on how women are treated in the workplace and how much women are paid compared to men.

Beautifully phrased. If we could abolish gender - that bunch of regressive, misogynist social stereotypes - and let everyone express themselves as they choose, while recognising that being a woman or man is about biological sex, not about personality, appearance or personal preference, and that women have certain needs and rights based on our biological sex - like single-sex DV shelters, hospital wards, sports teams and prisons - I’d be happy with that.

In fact you would see us as allies because we are breaking down the idea of a gender binary determined by one's biology.

How are you actually doing that?

By diluting our employment protections? By ensuring that females how ever they identify are being well represented by other females who actually understand why we need our own rights and who will work to protect these? This means leaving women’s short lists to the people they were created to advance and protect. All people deserve representation, so work toward creating your very own shortlists proportionate to the % of population. Stop using male privilege to take female representation roles.

How about simply acknowledging that women still do need special protections based on their biology. That would be good for a start. You seem very intent in diminishing these protections by calling for ‘equal’ rights. An ally would have this basic understanding.

but jennie told the trans person on this thread that they were wrong about gender, so I'm not sure jennie disagrees with that

[quote jennie0412]@DeliciouslyFemale well go on, I'd love to hear how I'm a misogynistic ageist? if you're going to call me that, may as well prove your point, hmm?[/quote]
I'll spell it out for you since you're clearly struggling.

You've equated defining women by their biology as anti-trans - when in fact this is a protected characteristic under the equalities act= misogynistic.

You've made a broad assumption that another poster is older than you and demanding respect based on your assumption of age= ageist

And you've accused another poster if mental health issues using slurs = disablist

Hope that's clear since you clearly lack any powers of self reflection when it comes to your own bigotry

Done, thank you.

My MP is lib dem, so, you know

Thanks for all you are doing, Maya.

So true Pertella. I think I need to go on a diet.

*gender binary

In fact you would see us as allies because we are breaking down the idea of a gender binary determined by one's biology.

Au contraire trans and non-binary require enforcement of gender biology in order to have something to move away from. If you acknowledged that people did not follow sex stereotypes then nonbinary would be seen to be nothing different from everybody. There would be no special status to lay claim to.

But none of this would affect sex difference; reproductive roles and physiology. Women are still the only ones who get pregnant and have the biology associated with this.

And stop patronising me hmm you're not superior just because you're (probably) older than me

top FWR night

Hi @MForstater (or anyone) can I ask, in the bold at the end where it says:
Worse still, many employers have also stopped monitoring and recording the sex of their employees, and instead record "gender identity". This is not a protected characteristic. if there’s a specific reason you haven’t mentioned men identifying as women too (which would surely also narrow the gap on paper without women getting paid more)? Thanks

Do you really want to live in a chromosomally determined caste system?

Oh sweetie 😂

@OldCrone absolutely agreed.

Thanks Maya.

And the privilege you have to be carrying (based on chromosomes and socialisation from birth) to be able to hand wave away sex based rights as unnecessary and deny that sex based differences and needs exist....

this is what female people need protections from, demonstrated in a nutshell. Those without female chromosomes who are in the privileged position of being able to be naïve or uninterested in the realities those female people experience, or the issues they are trying to talk about, because it doesn't affect them and doesn't matter to them. So they are able to make it all about 'but get rid of that because it gets in the way of male people being female if they want to'.

While totally ignoring thread after thread full of women trying to explain, absolutely deaf to them and their feelings and their needs and their explained lived experience. But constantly popping up to remind them how they don't matter a jot.

Thanks Maya, I'm on it. Sex based rights are needed by female people. I would LOVE to have been chromosomally gifted from birth with the freedom to not have to worry about this shit because it just doesn't affect me. But I still would have done, because I have the capacity to notice and care about other people.

But in some respects our sex does have an impact. Only women can get pregnant. That has an impact on how women are treated in the workplace and how much women are paid compared to men.

So, back to the topic at hand...

You’re right of course. I should know better than to continue feeding them, Thanks for the links.

Oh! Another -ist! Educate me about that too, now that you're here