Can any clever mumsnetters educate me on beauty privilege?

There's a difference maybe between saying somebody is talented AND excellent at what they do, compared to saying somebody's excellence is more likely to be recognised BECAUSE they are beautiful

they are just using every tool in their arsenal to get recognised. Good for them. Everyone does it, we all have something going for us. Doesn’t matter if it’s beauty or a previous successful career, or a famous family member, if you’ve something to help promote your work it’s best to use it, you’d be stupid not to.

I think because it underlines that women are still seen as more valuable, whatever their achievements, when they are also in some sense decorative

I don’t agree with this, it Simply means like men, in many areas of life they get more attention if attractive.

Are you a writer? Is there an element of envy here? That you feel they are getting ahead if you because of their looks, snd that that’s unfair? There is clearly something behind your feelings and why you’re focusing so heavily or writers.

Let's face it, magazines, newspapers and tv companies (tv companies especially) deliberately hire attractive young women. Of course it's sexist but it's also true.

Here’s an interesting take on it from JKR www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/10790320/JK-Rowling-Why-I-had-to-tidy-myself-up-when-I-made-it-big.html

I don’t understand the issue to be honest, you can be fantastic at what you do, and also beautiful. So?

It does start to read op, and you’re not alone judging on a few of the responses, you feel they shouldn’t also be beautiful. It gives them an unfair advantage, or they should in some way hide it, to make it an even playing field.

This is no different to saying they should hide another element of who they are, because it’s advantageous, be it they are funny, philanthropic, successful other career, whatever.

Quite frankly if their books were shit, it doesn’t matter how good they are. In fact if their books were shit, their beauty would be something to beat them with. If you’re shit at what you do, looks will only carry you so far, with some rare exceptions,

It has been scientifically prooven that we tend to look for certain ratios and those most perfect ratio as it wore is seen as most attractive and gets more attention. However looks aren,t everything.

I definitely see where you’re coming from OP. I think I might know who you’re talking about. It is a weird feeling of hearing these women talk thoughtfully and intelligently and then you see the promotion or social media and it feels a bit like they’re saying “oh and don’t forget we’re beautiful too”. (I think that says a lot about me too btw, which probably needs examining.) Like you say it’s a bit damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

And, there's a difference between beautiful and attractive. I am not beautiful but I am attractive to men because I am kind, funny and listen to people whoever they are. I also don't go for the archetypal handsome man. I choose kindness and honesty first

Interesting @LetsSplashMummy, I have always understood privilege to be pretty much a synonym for ‘societally advantaged’. I’m not sure I immediately understand the concept of ‘using privilege’ that you’re describing seeing as I understood that one of the main qualities of privilege is that the holder is likely to be unaware of it unless it is pointed out to them and they take the time to observe & listen to others (and to use something surely one must be conscious of it?)

Am absolutely prepared to learn more about these theories though, sociology is not my own field.

It's one of those supposed privileges that's entirely dependent on where you're standing.

For me, with one foot firmly in 'hideous troll' territory, it sometimes looks like conventionally beautiful women sail through life. This is because I am watching from the outside, and these beautiful women are mostly not detailing the trials and tribulations their faces have brought down upon them - and when they do, it's always couched as first world problems, not to be taken seriously, they should be counting their blessings etc etc.

Is having to preface every complaint with "People think I'm pretty so my problems aren't really very important" really a privilege? Or is it a means of ensuring those women whose faces fit well enough for them to achieve success are divided from their plainer sisters and encouraged to shut up and not rock the boat?

It's perhaps more useful to compare the experiences of women at both ends of the conventional beauty spectrum. Both are liable to be treated badly - the one as subhuman and the other as a decorative object. If anyone's privileged on this scale, it's the women in the middle, who are willing and able to play the game well enough to blend in.

But of course, those women in the middle still get fucked over too.

I'm reminded of what people say about playground bullies. Bullies gonna bully, and they'll always find something to latch onto. Is it a privilege to have fewer obvious points of attack than the poor sod standing next to you? Or are we all disadvantaged and oppressed by the presence of bullies who call the shots and get to make arbitrary and whimsical decisions about who's getting a kicking today?

I think it's quite dangerous to dilute the meaning of privilege to mean just any advantage. Privilege is a term about society, the groups people belong to and the way that group uses the privilege in a way that is detrimental to those is a less privileged group.

People do have advantages over others by belonging to these groups, but to try and tackle this at an individual level, or to dismiss people based on their belonging to these groups is counter productive - it needs to be tackled at a population/society level.

Being attractive/beautiful does confer some advantages, but people considered attractive are presenting themselves to fit the social standards, they are not altering social norms to fit themselves. That, imo, is why it is different to privilege (in social science terms).

Also, a lot of what is considered attractive is under our control - in that way it is different to skin colour, sex etc. We can all change our hair, clothing, weight, etc.

Privilege in this context is not the same as privileged overall in life.

A beautiful woman is not privileged. She still suffers the same patriarchal oppression as all women.
So do white women (but they have white privilege that WOC don’t), able-bodied women (but they have able privilege that disabled women don’t), straight women (but they have straight privilege that lesbians don’t) etc etc etc. White working-class boys fare worse educationally in the U.K. than any other race/sex group, many would not be considered privileged, they still benefit from white and male privileges in their lives though.

Just because she doesn’t have male privilege, doesn’t mean a beautiful woman doesn’t have beauty privilege. That’s a logic fail.

I can see the points being made about there being some sexism at play due to a gendered interpretation of the term beauty, which didn’t initially occur to me. Perhaps attractiveness privilege is a less gendered term, clearly the phenomenon affects males as well. But I don’t think that not having male privilege negates the existence of beauty privilege any more than it negates race, class, sexuality etc or any other privilege bias(?) that can intersect with sex. This what the term intersectional was originally coined to describe.

OP this is quite a noticeable thing. Marketing depts like a pretty face as it's more sellable, to put it in crude terms. I do agree that it often hinders women, not least because sometimes young and beautiful artists/writers get too much exposure and success too young due to them being pushed as an appealing product, as much as on the quality of their work.

This has undoubtedly increased in the past 10-20 years as authors/artists/writers are encouraged to become a brand as much as produce work. We didn't used to know much about the authors behind works - now creative industries expect social media presence and self marketing, in various senses.

I think the term "beauty privilege" is inherently sexist.
If it was termed "attractiveness privilege" then yes, absolutely it exists.
Prison sentences are affected by how attractive the defendant is
www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelawproject.com.au/insights/attractiveness-bias-in-the-legal-system%3ffbclid=IwAR3VNWtyusGFRK6jnhAYanJ4euyBJ16rpIUFYI4aV1DhyWjB45DjnBUx1JQ&format=amp

Attractive employees earn more
www.payscale.com/career-news/2012/03/beauty-and-salary

scout gave a good explanation of some reasons why

Didn't one of the supermodels (can't remember who) do a TED talk on the genetic lottery. Quick search later... it was Cameron Russell

www.ted.com/talks/cameron_russell_looks_aren_t_everything_believe_me_i_m_a_model?language=en

I do believe that good looking people definitely reap additional benefits, assuming they're not also complete arseholes.

I think, as a pp said, it has advantages and disadvantages. When I was slim and considered reasonably conventionally attractive, I got a lot of attention from men, they were often very helpful and quite protective and I got given things for free fairly often. But I also had to deal with the negative side of that attention- being groped, followed, harassed, etc. Now that I’m fat and a mum, I’m reasonably invisible to strange men, and while I don’t get the benefits, I don’t have to deal with downsides either, so it balances out.

I can’t say I ever got the “other women are bitchy to pretty women” thing but maybe that’s because I was only quite pretty, as opposed to stunningly beautiful.

And men who are nicer to women they find attractive turn nasty pretty quickly if a woman doesn’t respond in the desired manner.

Where are all the beautiful young women CEOs, high court judges, heads of state?

The corridors of power are not teeming with attractive 20 year old women.