Man making skirts non-gender

Men still have a LONG way to go for equality in these matters

Give over. Men started it all and men could easily have ended it. It benefits them to maintain the status quo.

How else do ordinary middle age white men become interesting and/or newsworthy for doing nothing

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

mmm, not sure I'm eloquent enough to convey what I'm really trying to say.

With regards to using submissiveness as part of sexuality, I was trying to ask if there is a huge difference between a man doing it and a woman - it's hard for me to 'get' this because the whole thing does sod all for me and I don't own nor desire to own a pair of stilettos. However, if women wear them to feel sexy, how is that different to if men do? I don't get why they're bloody sexy in the first place. I see young women with trout pouts and a 'sex-doll' look that I can only consider to be somehow submissive, I can't see anything that asserts the woman's personality in anyway other than to say, 'shag me as an object' - but I'm an old bat who may be spectacularly missing the point.

No, I don't equate women with being submissive. But I am aware of the narrative and it's hard to discuss the whole thing without falling into the trap of using the cliched descriptions when I'm trying to get into the head of anyone, male or female, who dresses that way. I simply don't get it. I'm not censoring it, It is just a mystery to me.

If someone felt uncomfortable around this man because of his clothes, surely that would be their problem - not his? And surely it would have more to do with their own negative assumptions and moral judgements about him and the sort of person he must be than his actual clothes.

Of course most people will be challenged, confronted, made uncomfortable by anyone who radically departs from the status quo. People are, on the whole, extremely conformist. This thread demonstrates that amply.

Only a hundred years ago, women in the West wearing trousers was extremely scandalous, even illegal, and would have made most people "uncomfortable". It was often considered sexually provocative and kinky, as well. Let us all be grateful for the likes of Marlene Dietrich and Katherine Hepburn, who dared to make people uncomfortable and popularised trousers for women. We all need these daredevils and nonconformists.

Men still have a LONG way to go for equality in these matters.

He looks great in a pencil skirt! Well except that really short leather one when you can see the outline of his penis...

I do have a problem with him calling his top half ‘masculine clothes’ and bottom half ‘non gendered’ though. As if clothes don’t have a gender, there’s no such thing as masculine clothes. Why are only women’s clothes non gendered?

He was called a twit, creepy, wanker, prick, sexual fetishist. And the level of hypocrisy in the actual criticism of how he looked and his actual clothes was awesome. Usually an attack on physical appearance is frowned on

None of us know if he's one or all of those things but can we please not pretend there's not a subset of men out there who are and given they don't wear signs or announce themselves we have as much proof he isn't as we do that he is.

It could be sexualky motivated. Thats a fact. Theres only one person who knows for sure amd that's him.

I'm not making any accusations on that. As I said only he knows.

But please...let's not pretend these men don't exist so you can use it all as some kind of "gotcha"

It's interesting that Malahaha gave the sari as an example of a garment that would be unsuitable for a man, since they are very similar to togas, which were exclusively worn by male citizens in Ancient Rome.

Sorry, carry on patting yourselves (general you) on the back about how open minded you are about "anyone can wear anything" and "clothes are just clothes" this thread shows how much truth there is in that.
I think there’s a misunderstanding. Anyone can wear anything but like any form of expressing yourself it’s going to create a reaction. It’s like anyone can SAY anything but there are of course consequences and what you say can be appropriate in one setting but not in another. We don’t swear like troopers at nursery/primary school, and we definitely don’t sign off from a zoom meeting with “bye bye, luvooo” not that that brain burp didn’t cheer up a very dry meeting mid lockdown. It’s not about being “closed minded” it’s about understanding what you are communicating and if it’s appropriate to force it on others.

I wear what I like and have been told others think I look a bit odd at times, who cares if I am happy? That bloke in heels and skirt doesn't need anyone to cheer him on if it makes him happy

No he doesn't need that but the number of posters nit-picking about , oh it's not thst unusual and the determination to find fault was amusing.

He was called a twit, creepy, wanker, prick, sexual fetishist. And the level of hypocrisy in the actual criticism of how he looked and his actual clothes was awesome. Usually an attack on physical appearance is frowned on.

Sorry, carry on patting yourselves (general you) on the back about how open minded you are about "anyone can wear anything" and "clothes are just clothes" this thread shows how much truth there is in that.

I think it's pretty obvious one can dislike or criticize a particular article or style of clothing without making a negative judgement about people who wear them.

I don't like romcoms but I know perfectly intelligent, interesting women who do. Their feelings aren't injured by the fact that we have different tastes.

I am also perfectly capable of believing that at some workplaces it's normal to wear pencil skirts and 4-inch heels. I don't think it should be that hard for someone else to believe that in my workplace, it's a different environment, and anyone in 4-inch stilettos would stick out like a sore thumb. Both sides have had their opinions shaped by their experiences.

You can get proper man skirts with pockets and everything.

Even poppers between the legs so that they don't blow up and display their nethers.

Hilarious trying to do the poppers up on the sea front on a windy day

I totally agree with Itisbetter

"Wear what you want is fine at home. Once you are at work I think it becomes less straightforward. I would not work with a nudist for example. I’d struggle with vest tops or short shorts. I don’t enjoy being close to others flesh."

I am sure there are quite a few outfits I'd find problematic if people wore them in my company at work. So when we as a society go out in public, we attempt to wear things that are not going to be very difficult for others. If we wear stuff others don't like fine. That's life.

If I worked with a guy who dressed like this I would accept his clothes style and not comment on it. But I'd definitely feel uncomfortable around a guy in high heels and tight skirts.

I think the interesting thing here is the fact that GC women frequently say "wear a skirt if you want to, just do it as a man" when men seem to think wearing a skirt makes them a woman.

Of course, in this case a fair few of us see that bloke and think "ugh, something bit weird/fetish-like about that stilettos/tight skirt combo".

Those two positions aren't at odds. Just because someone does something doesn't mean we have to like it.

From my point of view, I prefer the style Alex Drummond had, in the one video I've seen of him.

I wear what I like and have been told others think I look a bit odd at times, who cares if I am happy? That bloke in heels and skirt doesn't need anyone to cheer him on if it makes him happy.

Keep telling yourself that. It doesn't make it true

Why does it even really matter though. I mean really.

There are probably hundreds of people right now who hate my trainers. Black sketchers. In fact the mere fact I've never had any difficulties ordering or buying them , basically the same pair over and over fir years probably means they aren't all that popular.

So what. Did I buy them for you or for me...

Why do we care what so many strangers who don't owe us anything so don't have any obligation to pretend they like them or care about how i feel about them not liking them.

Why worry about it. Why so hung up on approval from others and not so bothered about building up resilience ajd the skills to deal with someone not liking how we look or what we do.

It's a very pretty shirt/ dress/ whatever but I wouldn't pay over a £1,000 for it.

DidoLamenting I don't think that is a woman modelling the Liberty dress

Haha, shames it's photos because videos of him teetering in stilletoes would probably be funny.
Imv no one who wants to be comfortable chooses stilletoes and skirts over trainers and trousers.
Stop giving him the attention he is seeking.

not an attack on the person wearing them, and neither is it narrow-minded.

Absolutely this.

Even when they infer that I myself am horrible! I just don't care

Which begs the question, when did we all get so needy. We survived for centuries without Facebook and twitter to post pictures of ourselves on to gather opinion on everything we feel, wear or eat.

If you were really cool and edgy would you do that or would you just get on with it.

Why do these people need to go to the papers and attention seek this way. They want all the attention and "glory" of being different whilst simultaneously getting out of being held accountable for any negative outcomes if what they are doing by being able to claim victim status cos of all the "haters"

There's only so much of this humans can take before it goes one of two ways. They flounce completely or the behaviour escalates free of boundries due to the egging on , until it reaches more sinister levels ...

And of course there is the usual narrow - minded attacks on anyone who wears high heels,

I hope you aren't referring to me in this. Saying that high heels make me cringe is not an attack on the person wearing them, and neither is it narrow-minded.
We are not obliged to like everything under the sun.
I have a friend who does not like the wide, flat, rather rustic shoes that I prefer, and has told me to my face that they are ugly. So what? She is entitled to think that. I'm not offended, and I don't see it as an attack. I'll still wear them.

I also like to wear socks with sandals (!!!) in certain weathers and I can't even count the amount of times I've seen people mock and laugh at this combination and call it ridiculous and ugly and utterly horrible. Even when they infer that I myself am horrible! I just don't care.

Would you call that a narrow-minded attack on me?

You should learn to separate a dislike of things preferred by certain people from a dislike or attack on that person.

Well all that proves is presumably your social conditioning that some clothes are suitable for men and some are not.

Well, I definitely don't think that a sari is suitable for men! They are designed to smoothly and elegantly wrap around the soft curves of a woman; they would not look as graceful and beautiful on the straight-up-and-down look of even the most toned and handsome man.

You're using "social conditioning" as a "gotcha, you're not as GC as you think". In fact, I've always said that people are free to wear what they want; but I am also free to like or dislike a certain look.

I don't like pencil skirts and formal office wear in general, on men or women. I'd shun any job that required me to wear that as a uniform, much less high heels. He's free to like and wear it. I'm free to dislike it, social conditioning or not.

I'm so glad that in my day and age nobody walked around with a camera and you didn't get to take photos of yourself (or have them taken) to say look at me, how cool and edgy I am!

Wear what you want is fine at home. Once you are at work I think it becomes less straightforward. I would not work with a nudist for example. I’d struggle with vest tops or short shorts. I don’t enjoy being close to others flesh.

I'd love to see the posters who made these comments say them to the faces of the women I work with

I'd love you to have done a shift or 2 at work with me where you can watch for yourself people falling over in the damn things. Yes alcohol is involved but as someone who also struggles to walk anything more than a small platform style heel . Even wedges are problematic for me, I know how much effort it can take to wear shoes that require balance and coordination... like I said I've had to pick young women /girls up off the floor because they can't walk /stay up in such unsupportive footwear . Akd many walk around clutching their sandals braving the concrete... in my town thats brave

As I said there are plenty who manage fine im.sure but let's not be daft enough to think that heels don't snap and unsupportive shoes can be problematic and tHt there are women who wouldn't wear them if they didn't feel they had to. I actually almost feel fortunate that my feet are too wide to fit into them, I'm clumsy enough in trainers i don't need any hinderence in staying upright.

There are lots of other cultures where men where some version of skirts, and it looks fine. In South India, lots of men both Indian and Western where lungis and it looks fine

This looks like a man trying much too hard to be non-binary or gender-free something or the other. It's too deliberate to be a natural look. If I were young again and dating I would not be attracted; I'd find him embarrassing, unlike a man in, say, a lungi

Well all that proves is presumably your social conditioning that some clothes are suitable for men and some are not.

Despite the strenuous attempts by some posters to dismiss this as nothing out of the ordinary you would look long and hard to find a man in western society dressed like this.

The mantra on here is "wear what you want" and "clothes are for everyone".If you believe that then it is completely irrelevant whether he is breaking down gender roles.

The responses on here show that these mantras are really only paid lip service to when presented with someone like him. I can't say that surprised me at all.

And of course there is the usual narrow - minded attacks on anyone who wears high heels, such as the absurd suggestion that no women working in an office would wear high heels and that women "totter" around in them. I'd love to see the posters who made these comments say them to the faces of the women I work with.

the way this chap is dressed is deeply unattractive to me for sure

just pondering why that is. I think because it reeks of fetish to me. i don't find someone wearing studded leather or a ball gag sexy either.

men in kilts on the other hand....