Joe Biden issues new statement on the transgender debate

It's a strange parallel universe in here where you can look at Trump setting his terrorists back on Gretchen Whitmer and think 'yes, he gets my sane, adult and considered vote'

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-whitmer-michigan-militia-election-rally-b1114257.html

Delphinium20 I don't know US politics as well as you. All I know is that when I hear you talk about Trump voters it reminds me of how so many remain voters talked about Brexit voters.

I think in general you can't make the leap that because a person cares about something, they will always vote on that issue. Sometimes even if it's really important to them. Very often the choices all seem at odds with something very important, and many people have immediate needs or concerns and vote in the way that seems most relevant in terms of how they understand the cause and remedy for that specific need.

Across the political spectrum I've noticed that when people vote against a candidate who seems to represent some sort of evil or bad thing to them, they assume that those who vote for them don't care about that same principle, but I just don't think that's an accurate assessment of how people vote or how the psychology of it works.

Apologies for not having read the whole thread, but for those suggesting that TRA demands will be low priority, the fact that Biden - who is ahead in the polls over here - felt it necessary to make this statement shows who the Democrats are beholden too. We all know there is very big money behind medicalizing children, and California already passed a law this year where convicted criminals can choose their gender identity and staff are compelled to use their pronouns. They can also request to be in a prison for the opposite sex and although that decision will be reviewed (I assume for safety) we all know TRA organizations will sue to hell to get transgender women in women's prisons.

I have more faith in the court cases in the UK. If they are found in favor of not medicalizing children and women's rights then I think the Republicans will finally have some meat to wave around and criticize the TRA point of view. I don't know anyone in the USA personally that supports the medicalizing of children, its the younger generation who have been taught this in schools as a civil rights issue - without any debate or serious examination of claims -who support it.

I imagine this statement by Biden is aimed at the youngest voters.

Hate this idea not have

Bellehathor and Floisme, you speak the truth. I keep asking myself, other than speaking more and more loudly on Instagrammable issues, what have Dems done for blacks. And I have this idea that left leaning parties are entitled to black or minority votes and so any minority who votes differently is a sell out and responsible for the rise of right wing gifts. I have found that attitude high among white Dems in the US but I also experienced it during Brexit. No I didn't vote in the Brexit vote as am a foreigner and didn't even live here. But I predicted Trump's win and Brixteer win because of the sense of neglect I felt among left-behind towns. It wasn't all about race and migration. And I say that as a black African who felt humiliation in applying to come and live here with my partner of 15 years, having held a high level professional job in the Netherlands but being treated as a beggar here.
If we want to end rise of right wing or racism leaders we need to listen to all disenfranchised and engage in meaningful debate, and even re-examine our long held beliefs against their arguments rather than simply branding them uneducated racists.

If you don't think that racism isn't at the heart of why people despise Trump, just look at the numbers. Black people, even those in poor southern states, voted almost exclusively for Democrats despite Black people suffering the highest rates of poverty in those states. Forgive me if I lump all white southerners together, but my god, the good ole boys of the south fought a war to keep black peoples enslaved in the 19th century, they then fought viciously for discrimination of Blacks and against their civil rights in the 20th century and in the 21st century they voted for a party that is almost 100% white and a party that actively gerrymandered districts to disenfranchise black voters. Forgive me if I question the intention of the well-documented white southern voter who, for some reason, votes almost always the exact opposite of their Black neighbors. Why would this be? Does their history of racism have anything to do with it?

There are many, many white people who live all over the US (south and north and coasts and Midwest) who care deeply about ending racism. If you aren't racist, but voted for a man who Federal officials found evidence had refused to rent to Black tenants and lied to Black applicants about whether apartments were available, among other things, you really don't give a shit about Black people in America.

In the time I've been on MN I think there has been a move away from the left, but I always felt that much of the very right on lefty posting was inauthentic and touched on virtue signalling. No one in real life would ever know you were secretly a Tory and given the vitriol that used to thrown at Tory supporters it's not surprising they kept quiet.

Then along came Corbyn. Corbyn and Momentum gave those who theoretically were still left wing if asked but in reality had already moved away (pension pots and inheritance tax tend to feature more as one gets older) the ideal opportunity to publicly move away from the Labour Party and vote Tory without losing face.

Corbyn and pals also led those who were genuinely still Labour supporters/ moderate left wing to stop and question and think "no, this is not what I want"

The moral being that it's not a great idea to call people stupid and racist when you need them to vote with you

true

As for the left-behind northern towns - a major reason why they voted Conservative was the attitude of remainers (of whom I am one) to them after the Brexit vote. The moral being that it's not a great idea to call people stupid and racist when you need them to vote with you.

In the last presidential election, out of the 20 poorest states, 18 of them voter for Trump. Out of the 10 richest states, 9 of them voted for Clinton.

might be relevant?

Normally people don't consider the left to be the political persuasion that ignores class analysis, but I guess that's for the far-right now?

Thanks, Morris! "What is this insanity?" indeed.

It's paranoia on a level with QAnon, but my first thought was 'Putin's infiltrated mumsnet!'

I wasn't surprised when Trump won in some states there (just like Boris repeated here in the northern Labour seats)

Same and true, the fact Boris got in so easily is because the Northern mining towns have felt ignored for years - a lot felt they needed change, and "any change" was good.

[quote Wildswim]@BelleHathor that reminds me of what a working class American said on something I was watching once. He was working two casual zero hour jobs, struggling to keep his head above water. He said he and his wider family (living in the rust belt) had real and pressing needs and couldn't believe that Democrats and much of the media cared more about trans' use of bathrooms than about the plight of communities like theirs.[/quote]
Yup, the Rust Belt were crying out for help for years. I wasn't surprised when Trump won in some states there (just like Boris repeated here in the northern Labour seats). Obama /Biden were responsible for signing of NAFTA which led to 10s of thousands of good paying jobs being shifted to Mexico. They were left to fend for themselves (while also tackling a fentanyl abuse epidemic) when they asked for help were told to "retrain".
Identity politics is the lipstick on the pig enabling politicians of both sides to pursue their lucrative globalist policies which hardly ever benefit those on the bottom, while still being seen as "nice" without actually tackling the issues that affect people.

You're talking gibberish, I'm afraid. Go back to sleep

Ooh.
I'm wounded
That's me told lol
So much for everyone being allowed an opinion

I hate to agree, but It's becoming more and more obvious, there's been a definite shift the past couple of years

In the UK any shift to the right will be almost entirely explained by the Labour Party's lurch to left wing extremism under the inept and unelectable Corbyn. The Labour Party lost me after 40 years support when that incompetent Marxist and his Momentum pals took over. Starmer has a long way to go to repair the damage and personally trans issues have zero to do with why I no longer vote Labour.

The Democrats, in general, are right of the Labour Party and also right of the Conservative Party

Good, I'm a Ruth Davidson/ Kenneth Clarke type Tory- clearly less right wing than the average Democrat.

[quote Wildswim]@BelleHathor that reminds me of what a working class American said on something I was watching once. He was working two casual zero hour jobs, struggling to keep his head above water. He said he and his wider family (living in the rust belt) had real and pressing needs and couldn't believe that Democrats and much of the media cared more about trans' use of bathrooms than about the plight of communities like theirs.[/quote]
I feel like that now about e.g. Lisa Nandy. As well as those from other side like Crispin Blunt.

I can be equally exasperated by left, right, female, male, if they espouse an exasperating and damaging ideology and lie about it being already legal, or being a legal nicety.

You're talking gibberish, I'm afraid. Go back to sleep.

Is this really all you have...pointing to a thread on the internet in the vain hope someone, somewhere might have said something you don't like?

It's not a vain hope someone somewhere
We're obviously reading "different" threads.
Fine.
Fair enough

Beliefs on Mumsnet which have, in the recent past, led to accusations that the people who hold them are adherents of far-right politics:

Belief in the importance of democracy.
Support for free speech.
A dislike of sex offenders and sexual predators.
Not wanting to vote to support the economic interests of the rich.
Opposition to antisemitism.

And so on, and so forth. It really is quite bizarre.