Joe Biden issues new statement on the transgender debate

Biden's take on trans rights is a non issue to the vast majority of American women when it's our health care that is on the line, our right to choose that is on the line, our institutions, and our democracy.

You're suggesting Popper to me? Of the Tolerance Paradox? Have you no self awareness?

Man, the right wing groups would have a blast reading this forum. The irony of women on a feminist board suggesting that Trump might be the better candidate...simply mind boggling.

We are used to voting for the lesser evil here in the US. We have done it many times. Biden is a favorite candidate of exactly no one, but Trump is simply unacceptable. Current polls show Biden at a 23 point lead among women. Women have always either hated Trump with passion (raises hand) or have been leaving him in droves more recently.

Biden's take on trans rights is a non issue to the vast majority of American women when it's our health care that is on the line, our right to choose that is on the line, our institutions, and our democracy. We have been watching it all crumble for way too long now.

Fanny
I suggest you do some reading. I recommend The Hobbling of the American Mind by Jonathan Haidt. Then you can graduate to Hayek and Popper. Good luck.

Wow, now you're persuading yourselves that Trump is safer on foreign policy

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40879868

www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/36519/yes-the-united-states-did-draw-up-a-plan-to-drop-80-nuclear-weapons-on-north-korea

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/nuclear-weapons-trump-arms-race/2020/10/12/1f32e026-041b-11eb-8879-7663b816bfa5_story.html

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/26/donald-trump-suggests-nuking-hurricanes-to-stop-them-hitting-america-report

Suffrajester

One of the most principled, consistent voices in opposition to the Iraq war was Ron Paul. His opposition was explicit from the beginning and he kept on speaking against military intervention and its terrible price. Here he is on Afghanistan:

This is an expensive, bloody, endless exercise in futility. Not everyone is willing to admit this just yet. But every second they spend in denial has real costs in lives and livelihoods. Many of us can agree on one thing, however. Our military spending in general has grown way out of control

[quote BovaryX]And once again, the partisan nature of tech on prominent display....

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/republicans-accuse-big-tech-of-censoring-biden-leaks-q7r6szmpf[/quote]
This won't help the Democrats in the long (or short) run and only serves to damage democracy.

The last time I voiced this I was accused of working for Trump but, like I've said, it stings at first and then you laugh and then you stop caring.

It seems to me that the incumbent holds most of the cards. If you're standing against one, not only have you got to get your own supporters out (which I understand H Clinton failed to do) you've got to win over some of the people who voted against you last time. That's tricky because they're still going to be invested in their vote - and in that person - in a way they wouldn't be with a new candidate. Telling them they've made a big mistake is unlikely to cut it - you'll just make them feel defensive Outright telling them they're stupid or bad - well I don't know what to say.

Treating anyone who tries to discuss this like they're the enemy is so self defeating that again, I don't know where to begin. And yet, from where I'm sitting (and maybe the debate is better in the US) this is where we are.

He's been less hawkish than previous president

Absolutely. But that is not something that is acknowledged by the legacy media. Hillary was not only the ultimate Washington Beltway establishment candidate, she was an uber hawk. There is an anti war, anti imperial hegemony aspect of the Republican party who believe in libertarian, constitutional values. Rand Paul is an example. This is also ignored by many on the left.

I'm still hoping that Trump being in power will make the USA less relevant in the world. He's been less hawkish than previous presidents and was a big reason TTIP was scrapped, and we might even see Korean reunification one day because Kim and Moon are handling it themselves rather than letting the US insist on a seat at the table. Trump's bad for the USA but I worry that Biden would be bad for the world and signal a return to the previous ways of doing things, bombing everything in sight and deposing democratically elected governments. I'm tired of the UK government following the US on everything, that's been the way for about 40 years now and it's brought us nothing but austerity, inequality and illegal wars. Put it this way, I don't need the Duolingo owl to motivate me to study Chinese any more.

Of course in reality, away from all the hoo-ha and what he HAS to say in public, Trump was very pro-Trans and was plenty vocal about it too. Anyone who's lived in New York for as long as he has, usually is.

'"You know, there's a big move to create new bathrooms. Problem with that is for transgender, that would be—first of all, I think that would be discriminatory in a certain way. That would be unbelievably expensive for businesses in the country. Leave it the way it is." Trump said that he would allow, say, transgender celebrity Caitlyn Jenner to use whatever bathroom she wanted at Trump Tower. '

www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/trump-transgender-bathrooms-222257

Absolutely no surprises there. The American left has been so utterly chewed up and swallowed by the trans issue, pretty much NO debate is allowed.

Unfortunately, it's either him or Trump and Biden is the only one talking about climate change, so if I was American I would feel I had no choice other than to vote for him.

It is really shit though.

This 1600 number does not include murders where them being women is not an issue eg bystanders etc.

Then you can not compare it to transwomen deaths. In the UK I don’t think there have been any deaths over the last dozen years where being a transwoman was the issue rather than eg drug debts, financial incentive, prostitution.

I've said elsewhere (possibly this thread, possibly one of the other upcoming US election threads) that if I were American I would hold my nose and vote Biden.

They're both corrupt, senile old fools (and one is a psychopath to boot) but one or other of them will be the next US president. There is no third choice.

So it's "least damage" time. Vote Biden and you screw over women in prison, women in sport, women in need of refuges. Vote Trump, and you screw over all women of reproductive age, because Roe v. Wade will go, and any reasonable approach to funding reproductive healthcare.

It would break my heart to have to vote for Biden, but I would do it, simply because control over one's own fertility is the number one right women need - everything else flows from this. The option not to have kids when you need to finish your education. The option not to have more kids than you can afford to look after. The option not to be tied to an abusive man because he repeatedly rapes you and leaves you pregnant. The option not to be forced to give birth to your rapist's child.

From a selfish UK centric position, I'd also feel marginally less terrified with Biden's gnarled old finger on the nuclear button than with Trump's trigger-happy tweeting finger hovering over it.

The smear campaign against Biden to make him look just as bad as Trump is sickening.

There is no smear campaign. He is what he is, there are mainy actual videos of him blatantly lying but he generally gets an easier ride in the media than Trump. The media is all over trump's every move.

I find that sickening.

I'm no trump fan but also no fan of biden. We have a similar narrative in the way that Sturgeon and Johnston are treated in the UK (not they are standing for president against each other) where sturgeon can do little wrong and johnstone can do no right despite mostly doing the same thing.

Anyone with a moral bone in their body will be voting for Biden

Nope. Your Manichean thinking is showing. You don't occupy the Moral High Ground. You don't get to denounce the Independents and Libertarians who are not voting for Biden. The Calvinist ideology of the elect on display again.

Yes, quite a few Americans who seem petrified of MN and diversity of opinion so trying to shut us up rather than offer counter arguments.

Ugh, this is how misinformation spreads. Dawn Wilcox never said 50 a day for female murders. She said she tracks femicide on a daily basis and it CAN be up to 50 a day, not it IS 50 a day. For example, in 2018 she tracked 1600 women. This 1600 number does not include murders where them being women is not an issue eg bystanders etc.

See article: www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/11/the-nurse-tracking-americas-epidemic-of-murdered-women

Wow, I used to think that the difference between me and my US friends was that I sometimes used bad language (especially driving) but they never did. That must have changed - there seem to be a lot of bad-language-using women lurking here to-day. (and I mean that in the old fashioned f word sense).

Tulsi seemed a bit of a crackpot To me, I would have preferred most of the others though including Sanders, Harris, Yang or mayor Pete.

They all would likely have recited “twaw” when push came to shove. Resistance needs to be more grassroots here - it will have to happen by political and legal action in the background, Dems quietly changing and clarifying exemptions to protect women while continuing to chant the mantra Publicly.

If you’re in the US Write to your congressional reps asking them to consider amending the equality act to protect women’s sex based rights. Support the WHRCs political action! www.womensdeclaration.com/en/

The smear campaign against Biden to make him look just as bad as Trump is sickening. All the ploys have been tried on this thread. Just as bad as one another. I'd vote for no one. He's old. He has dementia. Just fuck off. It's so transparent. Anyone with a moral bone in their body will be voting for Biden. There are a lot of Americans on Mumsnet. Including this one and you can fuck right off trying to hand that bastard another 4 years.

Dems got complacent for sure - “oh well thats already decided by roe and will be overturned in time” Doesn’t help the 12 year old denied an abortion after her father raped her right now.
Yes I see that and thanks for the explanation.
I think it does help to think about whether and how mistakes were made though, otherwise you just end up repeating them.

FWRLurker

You are right, in some ways they have a lot in common, just that the narcissist is openly proud about his faults.
If I lived in the US I wouldn't be able to vote for either of them. I honestly thought that Tulsi Gabbard would be in for a shout.