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Original poster

General thread on UK Cycling's inclusion policy

34 replies

CaraDuneRedux · 15/10/2020 16:56

Not mentioning specific cases because we're not allowed to, but MichaelMumsnet did say we could copy posts that weren't about specific individuals.

So here's what I think is the underlying motivation. Suppose hypothetically one were to find an athlete who wanted to transition who already had a slew of 1st places/ fastest times in men's cycling events in excess of 2 minutes faster than the best UK women. What might motivate UK Cycling's enthusiasm for inclusion? Here's what I wrote on the other thread:

British cycling are already counting up the medal tally in the 2024 Olympics.

What they don't realise is that the USA, Russia, China will all be busy finding their own outstanding trans cyclists even as I type.

In fact given how repressive Russia and China are about gay rights, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some up-and-coming gay cyclists getting heavily pressured...

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9years · 15/10/2020 17:56

I can’t believe the cycling thread was deleted. WTF!

Original poster
CaraDuneRedux · 15/10/2020 17:46

I think on this thread we can just talk about women and BETMAPs or competitors who have been through male puberty.

Not saying natal women, or biological women, or anything else.

The word "woman" is already taken.

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GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 15/10/2020 17:42

The rugby table shows incredibly clearly the advantage that BETMAPs ('BEen Through MAle Puberty) have over natal women.

If women's sports admit BETMAPs, natal women might as well forget it.

I so resent having to use 'natal women' for the sex class formerly known as women. Or, as I call them in my day-to-day speech, women.

IDontMindMarmite · 15/10/2020 17:34

Gah this is ridiculous that we have to talk in code. Fuck.

Anyways, thank you for re-starting the thread. I was reading more than posting. Commiserating.

Original poster
CaraDuneRedux · 15/10/2020 17:33

Also Ross Tucker's headline infographic from the 84 papers used as the basis for World Rugby's recent recommendation that, due to the 30% greater injury faced by women players in tackles against players who had been through male puberty, players who had been through male puberty should not compete in international rugby, regardless of hormone levels.

General thread on UK Cycling's inclusion policy
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Original poster
CaraDuneRedux · 15/10/2020 17:31

It's infuriating, but hopefully if we can point people in the direction of google, and keep the discussion live, it will help in some small way.

Here's a couple of references I rescued from the original thread:

The Times on the Karolinska Institute research showing the effects of male puberty don't magically disappear when a male-bodied competitor starts taking oestrogen.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-row-stoked-by-new-findings-3pwxjqqrp

and the actual research paper:
academic.oup.com/jcem/article/105/3/e805/5651219

(Also going to try to stick to my new policy of using the phrase "competitor who has been through male puberty" for the avoidance of both doubt, and the rohypnol like effects of language.)

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Quadzilla · 15/10/2020 17:30

I’m too angry to type anything meaningful but thank you for starting another thread.
I’m sick of being told to shut up.

keepwomensportforwomen · 15/10/2020 17:25

It's really bizarre that someone is happy to be interviewed and photographed for several public mainstream articles, but Mumsnet is worried that they might be upset that some women are discussing the content of their interviews on an online forum.
I'm sick of being told to be quiet, be kind, be inclusive, and it's why we now have men playing rugby against women. Let's not be quiet anymore or our daughters and their daughters will have no sport for themselves.

Original poster
CaraDuneRedux · 15/10/2020 17:02

Another post of mine from the other thread:

I fear what we're going to see is a race to the bottom among national sporting bodies/coaches (with apologies to Quadzilla who clearly does have a conscience - but we all know there are coaches out there who will do anything for a win). As soon as it's okay to have transwomen on your national squad, every national squad will want one (or ten) because they won't be prepared to give up on the chance of medals by having only women on their squad.

In fact, we've seen this done in more legitimate ways in other sports - GB rowing in the run up to the 2012 Olympics went looking for very good, and importantly, very tall "also-rans" in other sports and said "hey, would you like to try rowing?"

I could see a lot of high profile sports "talent spotting" among trans identifying teens. The only thing that might put the brakes on slightly is there are far fewer trans-identifying natal boys than girls.

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