Julie Bindel - article on allies

So my impression is that it's mainly about conspiracy theories plus anything else that people want to post on there. No evidence of it being a 'far right site'.

Amongst those top videos are David Icke who has supported holocaust deniers and claims WW2 was orchestrated by a Jewish clique. There is also Ronald Bernard who has promoted the faked Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a document widely distributed by the Nazi Party as evidence of a global Jewish conspiracy and documentaries claiming Bill Gates is planning mass genocide with poisonous vaccines. Not all antisemitism comes openly expressed and adorned with swastikas.

And I'm sorry if you think I'm attempting to be divisive. Perhaps if people were going onto far right sites and whipping up hatred against people like you then you would have a bit more insight into how this feels from a trans perspective. There are people on that website who would round trans people up and put us into camps if they achieved their political objectives. And it wouldn't stop with trans people. It probably wouldn't even start with trans people.

I clicked on 'top videos' to see what people were actually watching on there.

brandnewtube.com/videos/top?page_id=1

Right at the top, with over 50,000 views is loads of conspiracy theory nonsense. You have to get to the ones with only about 20,000 views to see anything else, where you get a trailer for the new James Bond movie, a Punjabi song and a documentary by Sonia Poulton about paedophiles in parliament (which is also on youtube).

The offensive videos you screenshotted have a few hundred views, so are not the main point of the site. I'm sure there is similar on youtube with a few hundred views (unless they actually take them down - I have no idea if they would).

So my impression is that it's mainly about conspiracy theories plus anything else that people want to post on there. No evidence of it being a 'far right site'.

And none of us are 'whipping up hatred' against trans people. If you see any posts on here where people are doing that, please report them because they shouldn't be allowed to stand.

Thank you for the warning about Brand New Tube. After I saw senior Labour Party politicians endorsing the view that WPUK was a hate group, I decided I would no longer take these kinds of allegations at face value. I will therefore check out BNT and decide for myself. I suggest everyone does the same.

Oh yeah let's pretend Transgender Trend are Nazis now.

So much shit. So much. Keep going, it merely means that actual alt right lunatics get an in because wankers on the left are so busy tarring everyone as racist and Nazi that you can't spot the actual ones in among the frivolously tarred.

Watched Posie's video linked here and one thing that struck me is that I've never seen her bad-mouth other women's activism in public. She's explicit about her support for women doing activism their way.

@MoleSmokes

The comparison to youtube is utterly specious. BNT was set up by conspiracy theorists to promote conspiracy theories, it is not a neutral platform. And youtube would remove much of the content on there, not least because some of it likely breaks laws on inciting racial hatred.

Sonia Poulton is an integral part of the site, to the extent of appearing with the website's founder to help rehabilitate a fellow presenter accused of dubious sexual behaviour with a victim of trafficking as detailed in the other thread on here. Her news show, which is being used as a vehicle to promote the site, begins with an antisemitic graphic advertising another BNT 'Rhodium' uploader who is an openly antisemitic holocaust denier, alngside other dubious charceters like David Icke.

And talking pf David Icke, him and Poulton go back a long way and were even in business together at one point. I have no idea what Poulton's views are, she has been somewhat reticent to say, but her work has had a conspiratorial nature for some time now, and she clearly has no problem working with antisemites like Icke.

I'm not really surprised to see Harry and Posie on that website, they clearly have little scruples about who they work with. But that an organisation like Transgender Trend, who seek to work with schools, did not take one look at Brand New Tube and run a mile is deeply troubling. And that they haven't removed links and endorsements after they have been made aware of the nature of the site even more so. I completely understand why left wing Feminists like Julie Bindel are putting as much distance as possible between themselves and this side of the gender critical movement.

And I'm sorry if you think I'm attempting to be divisive. Perhaps if people were going onto far right sites and whipping up hatred against people like you then you would have a bit more insight into how this feels from a trans perspective. There are people on that website who would round trans people up and put us into camps if they achieved their political objectives. And it wouldn't stop with trans people. It probably wouldn't even start with trans people.

InfiniteSheldon - ”Feminism does not belong to the Left. Try starting from that point and 'allies' won't matter. Feminism is for all women not some cosy cabal of correct thinking Left women to allow or disallow anyone else”

I agree - and I’m speaking as a life-long leftie.

All jj is doing here is causing as much division as possible - “Divide and Rule”.

Brand New Tube is a platform, like YouTube or Twitter. There are pornographers, anti-semites, paedophiles and every kind of bonkers conspiracy theorist on all social media platforms.

The NSPCC rubber-wanker referred to above posted his gross videos on YouTube and Twitter. That doesn’t mean that everyone who posts on those platforms endorses all the unsavoury content and characters they host.

David Icke is on Brand New Tube too. That doesn’t mean that everyone else on there thinks the Queen is a giant, shape-shifting lizard.

FFS - eye on the ball!

We all (and that includes jj) know that Transgender Trend are not a bunch of Nazis. Sonia Poulton has done some great, factual exposés (eg. on the Challenors) as well as some wildly speculative work. Give credit where credit is due rather than damn her outright.

Interesting that jj1968 comes here, riding on the coat-tails of Julie’s article, to sling dirt at Posie and Transgender Trend.

I don’t know who jj1968 is but their top priority does not seem to be protecting children, instead they seem focused on undermining support for those who have that as their mission in life.

Not worth engaging with IMHO.

Posie has invited Julie Bindel to go on her YT channel to talk about their differences. I hope she does and that then, maybe, everyone can move on.

I don’t agree with everything Posie or Julie Bindel say and do but it’s a fact that they are both important movers and shakers who make a real, positive difference. They both care deeply about preventing harm to children, as does Stephanie Davies-Arai (Transgender Trend).

I hope Julie Bindel takes up Posie’s invitation. They are not likely to agree on strategy but if they could at least agree to differ it might help heal a rift that others like jj1968 seem keen to exploit and widen.

I agree with her

A special invite to Julie Bindel to come and have a chat.

Is Milo Y a nazi btw?

Alt-right rather than Nazi. Anti-Feminist, Anti-Islam, weirdly anti-LGBT and yet pro child sexual abuse.

Oh well Laurie Penny...she's a bit hopeless isn't she.

And the important phrase there is "used to". Perhaps it started out as bants and became serious. Perhaps she didn't realise for a while. She's not hanging out with him now, so I don't think she can be criticised for hanging out with him before the penny dropped. Lots of us make mistakes about people. Laurie Penney also makes the mistake of talking shit about trans issues, so she's got form for not grasping stuff quickly.

Is Milo Y a nazi btw? I've seen him on Youtube a couple of times and was not favourably impressed with him but I didn't know he was a nazi. Are you sure? His grandmother is Jewish and he is gay so it would be a very perverse horse for him to back. But then, he is quite perverse isn't he, I get the feeling he's not quite the full shilling.

@OldCrone

Why do you care? You disagree with us so why do you care if we have 'bad' people on our side?

Because like many trans people I'm worried enough about what the future holds without the far right getting even more on our case as well.

I think I may have been experiencing a bit of a "boy who cried wolf" effect with jj, genuinely wasn't expecting them to make a valid point.

Good point. I have a friend on Facebook who posts all kind of nonsense, occasionally she posts sensible stuff, but I don't notice because she's such an untrustworthy source.

[quote jj1968]@Kantastic

There is actual Nazi propaganda one click from Transgender Trend's twitter feed. They are actively promoting a far right website. They know what's on that site, they have made the choice to promote it and appear on it. This isn't about the Spectator or the Tories but dangerous and potentially violent groups and individuals on the extreme right. And for what, to promote gender critical activism to conspiracy theorists and holocaust deniers. Do you really want them in your movement? Surely there are some lines you think shouldn't be crossed?[/quote]
Why do you care? You disagree with us so why do you care if we have 'bad' people on our side?

This oft repeated phrase "hanging out with nazis" or "hanging out with anti-semites" is so bloody dishonest.

No one "hangs out" with nazis.

Everyone else has explained how this works: a site dedicated to free speech by definition is going to have lunatic material on it. But you don't get rid of the lunatic material by demanding that people stick to the usual misogynist sites. You get rid of it by drowning it out with your own material.

Also i think TT shouldn't link to it and anyone involved with TT should let them know, but they are not tarnished with guilt by association for having done so. It's an innocuously named site and they'll have linked directly to the video not to the front page.

@BlackWaveComing and @xxyzz - I agree.

We're always saying the opposite side should do "due dilligence" - NSPCC should have checked out rubberman before employing him, the Greens should have checked Challenor's background, and the LibDems had no excuse whatsoever for not checking Challenor's background.

Well we should do the same. By all means be interviewed by the mainstream right of centre press - Times, Telegraph, Spectator.

But due dilligence means you shouldn't tether yourself to people who are espousing views which are outright evil, simply to get a platform (any more than political parties and NGOs should align themselves with people with very dubious background re. safeguarding, simply to get woke points).

Poulton is definitely the wrong side of a line I don't want to cross.

That said I just actually saw the material that jj linked to and it really is foul and it actually is on the front page when you scroll down far enough - some of my video thumbnails didn't load.

I would definitely be looking for another video hosting site if I had material there, it's one thing knowing that stuff like this is lurking in the depths but seeing it on the front page is a whole different thing. I think I may have been experiencing a bit of a "boy who cried wolf" effect with jj, genuinely wasn't expecting them to make a valid point.

It's possible to work with those unlike us, given we share some basic values.

But for feminism to embrace anti-Semitism? That's like inviting a disease to be hosted in one's body.

Unacceptable in any 'ally'. If we reject it from our own side of politics, why would we suffer it from others? Giving moral cover to anti-Semites is a price too steep, even for women's rights. Jewish women are women too; we don't sell them out to get ours.