Julie Bindel - article on allies

Agreed GrinitchSpinach
Unfortunately we have someone who likes to introduce random GC woman or women's group into threads in order to criticise them. The subject of the thread is irrelevant - it's just used an an opportunity to smear women. Can't imagine why?

Fortunately if lurkers do go and take at Transgender Trend's site they are met with thoughtful and intelligent content that centres the safeguarding and needs of children. It's very impressive.

Most of us know who Bindel is attacking, I would admire her more if she had just said so.

As to the rest of what is being talked about on in this thread, well, I have no idea what that has to do with Bindel's article. So I respectfully suggest the people who want to talk about these derails go and start another thread.

bad for women *and transpeople (especially transwomen) alike. That should have been

I'm mostly lurking these days, but delurked to comment that I find this thread's focus on Transgender Trend, Sonia Poulton, Brand New Tube, etc. completely perplexing.

The thread title is "Julie Bindel -- article on allies" and the OP links to Bindel's UnHerd article, "Feminism's dangerous new allies."

In this article, the only women Bindel criticizes by name are: Arielle Scarcella; Memoree Joelle; Kaeley Triller Haver (the piece misspells her surname as 'Harver'); Emily Zinos; and Meg Kilgannon. I believe all are Americans, though I am not well acquainted with each woman's public profile.

The only organizations Julie Bindel criticizes in the article are Hands Across the Aisle and Women's Liberation Front, both American groups.

Bindel writes, "I understand only too well the effects of being silenced and de-platformed, but joining forces with those who wish to repeal the majority of women's hard-won rights is a betrayal of the highest order. That's why I think these alliances are strategically disastrous...I believe feminists must look to the movement's success in the UK and understand that we can win this battle using strong feminist arguments rooted in experience, struggle, and female solidarity."

While I admire Julie Bindel's work on behalf of women in the UK tremendously, my question about this piece is: what is her experience in American politics? From what successful history winning political victories for American women and girls without ever speaking to any conservative women does she address American women?

However, I find this conversation is like saying that no one should use Speaker's Corner to speak about their topic because there are other's who have ill intent there

and

I am also not trying to minimise the disgusting content, however, I am pointing out that I have found disgusting content on twitter, reddit and other platforms too. And chosen not to view/read it. And chosen not to discount someone's opinion because they also use the site

Yup. My opinion on this. Also find it really odd that it seems people are being blamed for ads placed on interviews they have given. But, not odd at the same time, given circumstances

Also 100% agree with this

Ordinary trans people as well as LGB and intersex people are suffering as a result of the inevitable backlash

And this has always been very clear. Ordinary people are unfortunately being caught in the backlash against the most extreme transactivists, who pretend they 'speak for the community' yet will silence any who disagree with them with cries of 'truscum' and such. 'Ordinary transpeople' I know seem to disagree with transactivists wants/demands as much as anyone else does! But of course, this is transphobic and bigoted, to note, or to agree with. A fantastic example of this is many transpeople are over the moon the GRC process is simplified and cheaper, but more happy about additional trans healthcare being made available. Yet TRAs are very upset about this and think anyone who thinks that was acceptable or is a better result for transepople than selfID is a bigot and hates transpeople As their aim was and is, nothing to do with whats good for transepople, it was about removing womens rights wholesale, which does not help transpeople at all. I actually don't know any transpeople at all who agree with self-ID, all see the glaring issues and can see its bad for women.

*doxing

jj thankyou for explaining away the rape and death threats silly women are scared of. Just jobs lost and public doing left to explain away.

Fair enough, I would be interested to know what you think if you have time later though.

Thanks

It would be a pleasure to have a discussion about this

I'm really late so bye for now :)

Sorry lol, didn't see your reply.

I agree that a lot of the most extreme abusive stuff on twitter, on both sides of the debate, often comes from malign actors. We can only speculate about Russian bots and the like, but it is unfortunately the nature of the internet, and there's plenty of bored 4chan types and trolls who wind people up often for little reason other than their own amusement. I also think that misogyny is endemic online, and it's not just Rowling who has been on the end of it but any woman, including trans women who speak out on controversial issues has faced similar abuse. But I don't think there's any real evidence of an orchestrated plot, just the mess that anonymous social media has the potential to become.

There's another dimension to the nature of the debate online which is that for probably the first time in history adults are seeing how teenagers talk when adults aren't around. The sad fact is that 'suck my dick'', or 'go suck a dick;' are very commonly used phrases amongst young people in the US. They say this stuff to each other all the time. They tell each other to die in a fire all the time. I saw a twitter thread of obviously very young people who were utterly mystified why a gender critical account had taken offence to a gif posted to them of some cartoon character with a big gun saying die terf or something. To them it was just the way they communicate and they were astonished it could be seen as a genuine death threat, whereas I can fully understand why it was. I remember being that age and teenagers said terrible things to each other and about people, but they rarely said them in front of adults. Now that is all in public view and it's shocking to older generations, and also really unhelpful from a trans perspective, but I'm not sure it's about organised malign forces in a lot of cases, it's just kids being kids and winding people up, or trying to shock and all the rest of the boundary pushing behaviour young people have always engaged in.

Sonia Poulton appearing on the Sputnik show on the Russian news / propaganda channel RT

The Russian media is all over the TRA issue, as one might expect

I suspect one reason why organised conspiracy theorists are all over the GC movement is they recognise conspiratorial thinking when they see it, and so are actively attempting to recruit.

Umm yeah. This line is interesting. And, dare I say it, a little conspiracy like!

@hoodathunkit

Fair enough, I would be interested to know what you think if you have time later though.

jj1968

Typing this as I'm getting ready to go out, very pushed for time

To answer your question, although I believe you misread my post initially, I believe that the TRA movement has been infiltrated by sinister forces that push it to extremes that alienate most people including many trans people themselves

This clip from the longer video I posted above explains how this activity, astroturfing, works

I do not believe all the twitter accounts posting abusive messages like "Suck on my girl-dick bitch!" to JK Rowling were from real trans people. Many were produced by troll farms.

It is not just the TRA movement that has been astroturfed, feminsm, MRSa, animal rights, environmental movements, anti-trafficking movements, anti-child abuse movements - all have been astroturfed.

Sorry that's all I have time for right now but I hope it has clarified my position

Which conspiracy theories? I'm genuinely interested in what conspiracy theories you think trans people have weaponised?

Pushed for time and running late

I do not think that trans people have weaponised conspiracy theories

I think they have been used as weapons in someone else's war

happy to explain more in detail, just don't have time now

Winesalot

Sonia Poulton was promoted, alongside Shaun Attwood, as the golden girl and boy of BNT

Comparing the situation to youtube or any other platform is not right.

Poulton has been promoted as a central figure in the BNT brand prior to the site going live.

Poulton was and is a central talking head on the site.

Poulton's buddy Attwood hired a sex worker to service him and his bisexual bride on his wedding day. The escort had a problem with drug use. She proceeded to hoover up the very strong cocaine Attwood gave her, performed sex acts on Attwood and his bride. She then opened her heart up to Attwood and his bride about how she was new to the business, missed her child who was staying with her parents, and dong a job she didn't want to do. She and wanted to be their friend and travel with them to Arizona. So they kicked her out once they had finished with her. Which Attwood seems to think is funny.

I have to go now, but Poulton is a fascinating character to study for people interested in the strange alliances of the alternative media IMO

I believe that conspiracy theories have been weaponised to support the extreme ends of the TRA movement via the misuse of human rights movements and legislation.

Which conspiracy theories? I'm genuinely interested in what conspiracy theories you think trans people have weaponised?

Doesn't Occam's Razor suggest that what is actually going on is a legal disagreement about how to interpret the exemptions in the Equality Act which have rarely been tested in court when it comes to trans people and so are open to speculation, rather than it all being some elaborate conspiracy by shadowy TRAs brainwashing lawyers into misrepresenting the law?

I believe that conspiracy theories have been weaponised to support the extreme ends of the TRA movement via the misuse of human rights movements and legislation.

Ordinary trans people as well as LGB and intersex people are suffering as a result of the inevitable backlash

This is sadly very true.

I'd say that is verging on conspiracy theory, and is an example of how conspiratorial thinking has been weaponised against trans people, although I note it often comes with a suggestion that this is just the start, or people are being softened up, or there is some kind of elite with a broader more insiduous agenda using trans people as their first play.

I believe that conspiracy theories have been weaponised to support the extreme ends of the TRA movement via the misuse of human rights movements and legislation.

Ordinary trans people as well as LGB and intersex people are suffering as a result of the inevitable backlash

For those clinging to the idea that Brand New Tube is not a conspiracy site with sinister agendas....

Not sure that anyone is disagreeing that it is a conspiracy site. It very plainly is. And just as clear is the fact that there will be content on there that people will find repulsive. However, I find this conversation is like saying that no one should use Speaker's Corner to speak about their topic because there are other's who have ill intent there.

If this site is a problem, then people should be active in having it shut down.

I have now been to the site and looked under Sonia Poultons channel and I have not found any of the content relating to those pictures posted on there. I am not saying it is not there, it very obviously was and most likely still is. I am not denying that at all. I am saying it is possible to go watch the content without coming across that content. It is possible that other's have also not come across this content. (it could also be algorithmically driven for certain times for instance)

I am also not trying to minimise the disgusting content, however, I am pointing out that I have found disgusting content on twitter, reddit and other platforms too. And chosen not to view/read it. And chosen not to discount someone's opinion because they also use the site.

This video is fascinating

This channel has some good content although their production skills are very poor.

It seems that Sonia Poulton is being sued by John Hemming.

Hemming is an MP who has made various forays into the world of batshit conspiracy theories himself and has been a long time campaigner against what he claims is the kidnapping of children by the UK state.

This particular conspiracy was prominent in the recent Save the / our Children / Stand Up X, anti-vaxx, anti-mask, QAnon protests with which we are all familiar

You can see him here on Alex Jones's video

Hemming was subsequently falsely accused of satanic ritual abuse by Esther Baker, a vulnerable adult who has moved in similar circles to Carl Beech in terms of "survivor" support and therapists with questionable affiliations and practices.

The snake bites it own tail again

Yes trans groups have lobbied governments as has every other group since governments began. But the idea that a handful of TRAs, and there only was a handful when the EA was introduced, have brainwashed both government departments and a host of other organisations to openly defy the law, as part of some sinister agenda, sounds a lot like conspiratorial thinking to me. It portrays trans people as some all powerful force working behind the scenes to corrupt society when in reality the EA was introduced due to widespread shifts in social attitudes to trans people and the interpretations of it are based on legal opinion based on case law to date, including the many cases which have been brought before the court in which a proportionate means of acheiving a legitimate aim has been used in an attempt just justify discrimination. No conspiracy, just boring social progress, a bit of lobbying, a bit of companies trying to look inclusive, and a lot of people, often highly qualified people, coming to a different interpretation of the law to many gender critical activists.

I suspect one reason why organised conspiracy theorists are all over the GC movement is they recognise conspiratorial thinking when they see it, and so are actively attempting to recruit. And it's working, look how Venice and co are shifting towards Covid denial and attending rallies to listen to Icke and Piers Corbyn.