Bill Burr monologue on SNL - rants about white women

SOME white women have hijacked it. He didn’t invent the premise from thin air.

It’s possible to think his monologue was bad and sexist but ALSO consider the points made on their own merits.

The topic of the thread was how misogynistic Bill Burr was. Not how white women are racist.

He didn't "accuse white women of complicity in racism". He accused us of "hijacking the woke movement....complaining".

I am pointing out that women have plenty to complain about, whether or not they are racist, or upheld apartheid or anything else that's objectionable.

That because they supported apartheid (like white men) they should suck up rape/domestic abuse/less pay for equal work etc?Is it only virtuous women who deserve equal rights to men?

That’s not even what’s under discussion here!

When white women are accused of complicity their response should not be “Well actually the men were the racists and we could say anything against it because they were also sexist against us.” There were absolutely white women who believe(d) in white supremacy and enforced it out of their own convinctions, or ignored racial injustice to maintain their own status in society.

There were many white mothers for example marching in the streets in America against school integration in the 1970s because they didn’t want black children sitting next to their white angels. Did sexism cause that?

Funny how you didn't bother mentioning how women actually attempt suicide more.

I know this comment wasn't aimed at me, but I've got to say I'd rather my son attempted suicide than actually killed himself. I think the issue is that men don't 'attempt' suicide as a cry for help like when I slashed my wrist as a teenager with no real intent to kill myself. They bottle it up and then decide they don't want to live anymore, at which point they blow their head off with a shotgun or jump off the 15th floor.

What does this mean?
That because they supported apartheid (like white men) they should suck up rape/domestic abuse/less pay for equal work etc?

Surely it means that they should acknowledge their complicity in the mistreatment of POC rather than blame it on men and invoke all manner of whataboutery. The other stuff you mention had nothing to do with the topic of white women taking responsibility for their actions.

Yep, agreed.

Burr needs to sit down and read Catherine McKinnon on white women.

I think Burr's monologue was seen as acceptable, even though one could argue that he as a white man was punching down, because the idea that women might be discriminated against on the basis of sex is getting fuzzier.

I can't get over the Gucci shoe comment.

Men like this preach intersectionality but fail to practice it. No white woman in the US is disadvantaged because she is white, but plenty of white women suffer significant disadvantage.

Has this pig never heard of disabled white women? Poor white women? White women living with daily domestic terrorism? White lesbians? Jewish women who are read as white?

The US progressive space is in full on denial of any form of class politics other than race/trans.

I’m not convinced that they were so oppressed by the yoke of male dominance.
What does this mean?
That because they supported apartheid (like white men) they should suck up rape/domestic abuse/less pay for equal work etc?
Is it only virtuous women who deserve equal rights to men?
I listened to a great podcast about race where they likened the race issues to black people owning the leasehold and white people owning the freehold.
Thats what this sounds like. Men own the freehold and women can be leaseholders if they are virtuous enough (ie not white, with no discernible privilege, no wrong think).

We don’t have to go back to slavery. There were white women in apartheid South Africa in the 1980s who backed the regime and I’m not convinced that they were so oppressed by the yoke of male dominance.

I remember reading an excerpt years ago where a former slave was saying that one of the most common reasons to be mistreated by the woman of the house was jealousy that the husband was directing his sexual attentions on the slave. So they would be raped by the man and then 'punished' for it by the woman. I don't think anybody is saying that women are worse, more that they don't like to acknowledge their participation which is clear on this thread with all the whataboutery.

Men were the worst with white women a close second.

I remember reading about how white women used to tear black women away from their newborns to be wet nurses (God knows what happened to their babies)
That happened here too, but it was to Serfs in the middle ages who were white.
Black female slaves were regularly raped a forced to bear white slave owners children, but yeah, obviously the women were much worse than the men

I think a lot of people believe that white women are second only to white men, which means they are almost at the top of the tree.
Yes this. And a weird view that its some kind of ladder and white women are on a high rung.
Its true I'm never going to be randomly beaten up by a man who takes exception to my existence, like gay men or black men are by racists and homophobes.
But i have been sexually assaulted more times than I care to count,which I doubt is the case for black and gay men.
I prefer to see various kinds of oppression/disadvantage as a venn diagram. None of the circles are more important than any other,and they all overlap.
The fact this guy feels so confident recording this shit proves how embedded misogyny is. Its just invisible to him.

Well, he calls women 'bitches'. Women are women, whatever colour their skin is. And this man just calls us 'bitches'.

Saturday Night Live is shit. Has been for years.

I agree he has a point but expresses it badly, in a manner that pushes many people away who might otherwise agree with him.

Men have IMO been much worse than women as they were usually the most active proponents of racism, driving the slave trade etc, but women were also complicit and I find it frustrating that many will try and avoid acknowledging this by drawing attention to the men.

I remember reading about how white women used to tear black women away from their newborns to be wet nurses (God knows what happened to their babies) and it was sobering reading. Many slave accounts mention that the 'woman of the house' was more feared by female slaves than the men.

In the American context it is important to note that white women have used racism and sexism to oppress black men. Burr makes the point crudely but remember the woman in Central Park who called the police fake crying saying “an African American man is trying to assault me.” That was this year! The Emmett Till case from the 1960s is well known also - a white woman claimed a black boy had whistled at her and he was killed by a white mob. She later admitted that she’d made it up.

So while not trying to be divisive, you can see why many black women just don’t trust white women when it comes to working together on issues of oppression. Because they see those white women acting nervous around their black sons and husbands. It’s just not resolved yet in America.

So yeah I don’t like how Bill Burr delivered the monologue at all - why say “my bitches” for example! - but somewhere in the word jumble there’s a solid point.

Also, it's white men/men in general who have painted themselves as the biggest victims in the world and it has always been this way.

Oh, come on. This just isn't true. 😂 Bill Burr is a bit of a nob who fishes for a reaction, but men in general don't play the victim much. If we're to argue that they do, then this is at complete odds with the 'boys don't cry' element of toxic masculinity which tells suffering men to 'man up'.

Suicide is the biggest killer of men and yet they talk about it less than feminists talk about manspreading.

I think class analysis can at times have it's uses, but a lot of white liberals completely over egg the pudding with their blaming of all and sundry on the straight white male, without considering that each and every one of them was fathered by a straight white male.

They effectively highlight the privilege they were born into as offspring of this elite group and then wonder why nobody takes their subsequent cries of oppression seriously! 🤷‍♀️

Susanna any comment on my second paragraph? (Or the last saying I didn’t like the performance...)

Not liking his delivery should really go without saying.

I will apologise though as I read your second paragraph and compiled it in my head with the pp who mentioned the #metoo movement and appropriation by Alyssa Milano.(Which is untrue and has been denied by Tarana Burke). And my hackles were already up at the suggestion that these women should have kept quiet.

I just find these arguments so divisive. All women are oppressed, black or white. Of course black women are also oppressed because of their colour, of course this should be addressed, but we should all stand together on women's rights.
This is what MRA want - divide and conquer, women tearing each other down.

I find it weird and racist the way people like him divide the world in to black and white as though people only come in 2 colours and only white people can be racist. Where do Japan and China fit in to his rule, or Uganda expelling its Indian ethnic people or the conflicts between people of Pacific Island and Indian origin in Fiji which saw the Indians discriminated against?
I've never heard of this guy but his "my bitches" language is aggressive, nasty and demeaning

Susanna any comment on my second paragraph? (Or the last saying I didn’t like the performance...)

Having seen the clip I think his point is that white women have been complicit in racism and they don’t get an “out” because sexism also exists.

And men don't get to be mysogynists just because some white racist women exist.
Tbh, I can't stomach this argument coming from a white man...Is he not centering himself in the struggles of black people?

Surprised to find people here supporting this mysogynist crap and since when does being married to a POC excuse you from spouting your hatred of women, he needs to be called out on his misogyny, as that is what it is. It's neither satire nor funny. The pp claiming white women hijacked the #metoo movement... so should they just have stood down and kept their mouths shut? Like men have expected them to do for centuries.