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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Crispin Blunt: Strident women's rights campaigners provoked trans people to be angry and confrontational.

134 replies

yourhairiswinterfire · 11/10/2020 21:51

www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/after-his-furious-public-spat-crispin-blunt-liz-truss-trans-rights

From the article: “You've had strident women's rights campaigners... who have provoked trans people to respond often in an angry and confrontational way, and that is unsurprising because this is a central assault on their identity,” Blunt says.

Yes. "Look what you made me do!". The catchphrase of abusers everywhere. If only we'd done what we were told girlies, we wouldn't have been threatened with rape.

This article has some right gems in it. Apparently women just haven't looked into this deeply enough, not as deeply as Blunt, who has been on it since the summer.

“Unless you get quite deeply into this and think this through and have both the empathy and the time to get yourself into that place of understanding it's quite easy to think that there are real problems here about men pretending to be women in order to assault women. That men will seek to take improper advantage of rights afforded to people to take a particular gender identity for improper reasons,” he explains.

Karen White who, guys?? Blunt reckons women aren't at threat from transwomen, and men aren't going to pretend to be women to harm women. Either Karen White is a transwoman, and therefore women are at risk from some transwomen, or Karen White was pretending to be a woman, and therefore women are at risk from men pretending to be women. Maybe you should have done some more 'studying' before opening your gob, Blunt, that's not the only case of this happening. There's no acceptable number of women harmed before we say enough is enough. One is too many. Maybe try looking 'quite deeply' in to that, and the trauma sexual assault victims are left with in the aftermath.

My personal favourite quote is that some religious zealots are "manipulating" women's rights groups to stop people self identifying, because God wouldn't agree with it Grin I wonder if he did this studying with a tinfoil hat on?

OP posts:
SunsetBeetch · 12/10/2020 07:24

POS misogynistic Angry

NecessaryScene1 · 12/10/2020 06:55

"get yourself into that place of understanding"

Crispin Blunt: Strident women's rights campaigners provoked trans people to be angry and confrontational.
HPFA · 12/10/2020 06:54

@DidoLamenting

I'm still not sure what your specify point is with regards to the Crispin Blunt article?

I am suggesting Berns might be someone he had in mind. Berns certainly managed to put me off having anything to do with a gender critical stance for a very long time. I'm still not fully behind it but am open to persuasion in part - that is despite of, not thanks to Berns.

It's true that people respond to different styles in argument. There's an example of the "opposite end" to M Berns here:

www.theunspeakablepodcast.com/podcast/episode/379c6175/why-are-so-many-kids-saying-theyre-trans-and-how-big-a-deal-is-this

And Lily Maynard also takes a "gentler" approach:

twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

But:

  1. Talking about "strident women" is appallingly sexist.

  2. "TRA"s do not regard any expression of the GRC position as legitimate because they cannot defend their position rationally. There isn't a way of preventing men abusing self-ID so rather than admit that they have to slander the people pointing this out. Same with women's sports. And saying "it's bigoted to believe that sex is real but fine to believe in 100 gender identities invented by bored teenagers on Tumblr" is clearly nonsensical.

  3. There was (and is) a perfectly legitimate and realistic defence of trans rights based around gender dysphoria (a medical condition) - right to medical treatment, to non-discrimination etc. No one forced the leaders of the trans community to come up with a rationally indefensible position and the inevitable consequences of guilt tripping people into accepting it.

Datun · 12/10/2020 06:45

@unwashedanddazed

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1307304/Wife-traumatised-Tory-MP-Crispin-Blunt-admits-Im-gay.html

For a man who claims men won't pretend to be women, he seems to have forgotten that he pretended to be heterosexual, voted against gay rights, married a rich woman and spent her fortune, then traumatised (her word) her by declaring himself gay. Oh and also, whilst pretending to be straight, stated that homosexuals have a propensity to depend on the exploitation of youth for gratification (his words).

He appears to be a man who will say and do anything to serve his own needs, but wants to tell women that men never do that.

The comments under that article are entirely critical. He's called a variety of selfish, deceitful and putting himself first, over and over. They all think he's a prat.

And none of it seems to have remotely dented his arrogance.

calllaaalllaaammma · 12/10/2020 06:41

He must have skin in the game one way or another- that's the only thing that makes sense.

Kit19 · 12/10/2020 06:32

@unwashedanddazed

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1307304/Wife-traumatised-Tory-MP-Crispin-Blunt-admits-Im-gay.html

For a man who claims men won't pretend to be women, he seems to have forgotten that he pretended to be heterosexual, voted against gay rights, married a rich woman and spent her fortune, then traumatised (her word) her by declaring himself gay. Oh and also, whilst pretending to be straight, stated that homosexuals have a propensity to depend on the exploitation of youth for gratification (his words).

He appears to be a man who will say and do anything to serve his own needs, but wants to tell women that men never do that.

Hahaha oh god these men are so stupid! Do they think we don’t do our research

I’m not surprised he’s doubled down at all. Westminster is very much a bubble & I do believe Helen belcher is very involved with this group who has had years of practice & success in convincing otherwise apparently sane politicians that TW are the most oppressed ppl ever

Vermeil · 12/10/2020 05:32

The article makes him sound stupid and slightly hysterical.
I wonder if he’s planning to stand down at the next election and is after one of those nice cushy well paid part time NGO jobs ex politicians are so fond of?

DoctorTwo · 12/10/2020 05:26

@DidoLamenting

"I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar". Magdalen Berns.

unwashedanddazed · 12/10/2020 01:43

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1307304/Wife-traumatised-Tory-MP-Crispin-Blunt-admits-Im-gay.html

For a man who claims men won't pretend to be women, he seems to have forgotten that he pretended to be heterosexual, voted against gay rights, married a rich woman and spent her fortune, then traumatised (her word) her by declaring himself gay. Oh and also, whilst pretending to be straight, stated that homosexuals have a propensity to depend on the exploitation of youth for gratification (his words).

He appears to be a man who will say and do anything to serve his own needs, but wants to tell women that men never do that.

Cailleach1 · 12/10/2020 01:19

So Crispin Blunt says there are real problems here about men pretending to be women in order to assault women.

It is late. Is he saying that there are problems around men pretending to be women in order to assault women? Or is he saying there is simply a problem around the issue of men pretending to be women, as he puts it?^

yourhairiswinterfire · 12/10/2020 01:14

I don't know if Magdalen was on his mind. He says he was unfamiliar with this up until the summer (in the part where he also wrongly assumed none of us know any trans people).

It's possible he's done research and heard about her, but given his odd stats that KatVon mentioned (100,000 suicide attempts by trans people and it wasn't major news, really?) I'm guessing research isn't his strong suit. Either that or someone's been spoon feeding him bullshit.

OP posts:
howard97A · 12/10/2020 01:07

From the article: “You've had strident women's rights campaigners... who have provoked trans people to respond often in an angry and confrontational way …”

I just happened to be reading Lethal White by Robt Galbraith aka JKR.

One of the characters says, in respect of her husband’s questionable behaviour:

“Men’s crimes are always ours in the final analysis, aren’t they, Mr Strike? Ultimate responsibility always lies with the woman, who should have stopped it, who should have acted, who should have known. Your failings are really our failings, aren’t they?”

HecatesCats · 12/10/2020 01:04

Night!

NRatched · 12/10/2020 01:03

I kind of assumed it was posted for a reason

Seems you were indeed right, and I was wrong. Unsurprisingly, lol. Off to bed Grin

DidoLamenting · 12/10/2020 01:02

My cause’ is that transwomen are men if you do not agree with that then you are a TRA. Whether we agree about Covid shutdowns, the impact of a fly on presidential elections, or marmite is irrelevant

And how exactly did you extrapolate my position from what I posted?

I was criticising the messenger.

HecatesCats · 12/10/2020 01:01

@DidoLamenting

I'm still not sure what your specify point is with regards to the Crispin Blunt article?

I am suggesting Berns might be someone he had in mind. Berns certainly managed to put me off having anything to do with a gender critical stance for a very long time. I'm still not fully behind it but am open to persuasion in part - that is despite of, not thanks to Berns.

Ok, but also Berns might not have been on his mind at all.
HecatesCats · 12/10/2020 01:00

@NRatched

However I do agree that the pont was bizarre in this thread, and just kind of assumed the Magdalen post was posted in the wrong thread and was meant for the Magdalen one? Might be wrong though, probably am Grin
I kind of assumed it was posted for a reason 🤷🏼‍♀️
DidoLamenting · 12/10/2020 00:58

I'm still not sure what your specify point is with regards to the Crispin Blunt article?

I am suggesting Berns might be someone he had in mind. Berns certainly managed to put me off having anything to do with a gender critical stance for a very long time. I'm still not fully behind it but am open to persuasion in part - that is despite of, not thanks to Berns.

NRatched · 12/10/2020 00:57

However I do agree that the pont was bizarre in this thread, and just kind of assumed the Magdalen post was posted in the wrong thread and was meant for the Magdalen one? Might be wrong though, probably am Grin

NRatched · 12/10/2020 00:56

I would say TRA is a very specific thing to be. One who actively campaigns for so called 'trans rights', or agrees with TRA iedology at the very least.

I am not saying it is wrong to call others TRAs if thats your definition. I am simply replying to show that this is not necessarily a 'FWR thing', as no doubt this will be used tomorrow as 'look, FWR think anyone who says transwomen are not men is a TRA!!!!!!' because it was said by a poster. So yeah..kind of pointless post for me here, sorry about that.

Its sad that I even fucking think like that these days, or care about such things though. I think I need to get out of this mindset, as people will attack and misrepresent and generalise either way.

DidoLamenting · 12/10/2020 00:55

I have never watched a video by Magdalen Berns, maybe I will check one out. Thank you for the recommendation. Anything you try to pull down is probably going to be fab!

Glad to assist- I've no idea who you are as I don't recall reading any of your previous posts.

I'm not a TRA and it's a bit depressing that any criticism of the gender critical case instantly provokes the sort of response on here like that from Aesopfable.

If Aesopfable cares to read my post she will see I wasn't even criticising the GC viewpoint but the way one of its proponents put her message across.

I certainly was not putting forward a trans activist case --despite Aesopfable's reinvention of what I said.

HecatesCats · 12/10/2020 00:46

@DidoLamenting

Is that the best you can do? Anyone who doesn't agree 100% is a TRA?
I'm still not sure what your specify point is with regards to the Crispin Blunt article?
Aesopfable · 12/10/2020 00:45

@DidoLamenting

Is that the best you can do? Anyone who doesn't agree 100% is a TRA?
‘My cause’ is that transwomen are men if you do not agree with that then you are a TRA. Whether we agree about Covid shutdowns, the impact of a fly on presidential elections, or marmite is irrelevant.
DidoLamenting · 12/10/2020 00:41

Is that the best you can do? Anyone who doesn't agree 100% is a TRA?

Aesopfable · 12/10/2020 00:38

I do seriously wonder if she did more harm than good to your (general your) cause.

I am always amazed by the TRAs who come on here to express concern about people doing harm to ‘our’ cause, when doing so must be helpful to theirs? You would have thought they would welcome the intervention of people who harm the cause that they are opposing? You would think their time would be better spent lecturing the TRAs who are harming their cause instead.

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