World Rugby Guidelines out

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

Depends on the transman, you would never tell that my friend was once female and he plays rugby at a high level, he's accepted completely by his team based on performance. He's a hooker!

All teams have been consulted and DD's league are not allowing trans women to compete in contact rugby, hence the decided at a local level

Bbc headline

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54491179

Yes of course stonewalls disappointment is the key thing here as opposed to world rugby making sure women are safe

I still think the transmen need saving from themselves on this but I think men can sort that out for themselves if they have problems with it.

As a transman would have the opposite of advantage over men, then it is more a weak point in their team or the opposing team.

The fact that there is flexibility at community level, the decision makers is where the buck should stop in the case of injury. Would they need to show on what basis they decided to allow female bodied persons who have the gender identity of a man to be put at risk on the field? Also, do they open it up for all female bodied person, then? If not, why not?

If it is 'gender' identity, do they allow male bodied persons who claim the 'gender' identity of a woman to play on the men's teams? If 'gender' identity trumps sex for one, why doesn't it trump sex for the other?

As before, Ross Tucker is dealing with the whatabouts. There is particular push back on the ‘lack of studies of transwomen athletes’ being used for the decision.

Interestingly, Dr Hilton has restated that she has looked more closely at biological advantages from birth and there may still be advantages that are inherent even before puberty. So, I wonder if that will be a study available for the in-depth review in 3 years. It would underpin the entire discussion surely.

Both my sons play rugby. My 13 yo is slightly taller than me 5’6” and definitely stronger. My 17 yo is 6’2”, solid muscle who can squat and bench press multiples of what I could manage. One tackle last year was so hard he ended up with a broken finger.

There would be very very few female rugby players of the same age would be safe that would be safe playing against them.

So oppressed. So in danger..

Good decision. Shame they treat community level rugby like a kick about with kids at the park but hopefully this will give those who run their clubs the confidence in the fact they can say no.

I still think the transmen need saving from themselves on this but I think men can sort that out for themselves if they have problems with it.

Good work everyone

You will be fucking dealt with.

The most vulnerable people in society who we need to be kind to? That's who wrote this?

And for the hard of thinking, let me make clear 'fundamentalist nutjob' refers to someone with or without any protected characteristic who believes their personal politics permits them to threaten to harm and kill another person.

Behaviour. I am talking about the behaviour.

If the police decline to respond to that malicious, threatening communication then it needs to be reported to MPs, newspapers and anything else possible to demonstrate the police are now selectively enforcing the law according to an institutional political bias that is prejudicial to women and safeguarding.

Sooner or later one of these fundamentalist nutjobs is going to seriously hurt somebody, and it will be because police among others repeatedly enabled them to believe that their politics made them above the law.

I see quite a few people saying how dangerous it is for transwomen to play with males in rugby. And we have had so many tell us there is few side effects for males on estrogen. So, why is it so dangerous for transwomen to play with males, and in the same breath ok to ignore the scientifically proven and repeatably provable that it is dangerous and unfair for transwomen to play with females.

That the lack of coherence is so discordant aside, do these transwomen believe they are more prone to injury, to violence, or to being harassed? Or is there known serious side effects to their medication? In which case, others with medication that excludes them from sport don’t get to put females in danger.

And why is it females who have to fix it? Why do females have to fight back to reclaim fairness and safety in our sports?

That email is disgusting and I hope the police do something about it (assuming it has been passed to them).

With the blatant politicisation of the police - pandering to the ‘he instead of she’ is literal violence brigade - I doubt it. Very happy to be surprised.

That email is disgusting and I hope the police do something about it (assuming it has been passed to them).

I love reading Ross Tucker's tweets on this. He's so clear and firm.

Have you seen the message someone sent to Nic?

mobile.twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1314629421853224966

You will be fucking dealt with. Chilling. I hope the police will deal with that.

So I think good result. They’ve kicked some decision making down to a more local level but insurance is super important to all clubs so World Rugby guidance will be helpful.

I’ve looked at the England Rugby website and not updated recently (early 2019) but it looks positive as far as I can see. It requires registration of transgender players and requires < 5nmol/l testosterone in serum test for 12 months which from googling, while higher than max female range is half of lowest male range do presumably will be hard to achieve. Also gives case by case allowance so I imagine those transgender players that have had no medical ‘intervention’ will be excluded with no trouble?

The transgender player registration will be important for refs (I assume) to enable them to vet certain players eligibility if necessary.

I’ve had wine so feeling positive - hope I won’t regret

I watched Sharron Davies on the vid session discussing the upcoming Olympics. She was awesome. And pointed out how she had to compete in a games where all bar a few medals in swimming went to women on testosterone. And while that is now known, the results were never amended and there was no remedying the loss to those competing fairly.

It is so very true. So while I believe wholeheartedly that all people have to right to compete in sport in anyway they are capable, people with the benefits of testosterone at puberty should compete with others who have had that advantage. And if they want their own events because they feel they have a case, organise sponsorship and get it up and running.

But... Lesbians are not to be accepted without exception.
They are accepted conditionally, the condition being: They worship dick.

The glorious Sharron Davies replied to Bonewall “ No one is shutting trans women out they just need 2play where safe&fair. It’s incredibly disappointing that

@stonewalluk
don’t look at the hugely in-depth, scientific, factual evidence this decision is based on. 4u 2support the dangerous inclusion of biological males in reckless”

She has three times the likes they do.
(& I love her even more as an adult than I did as a swimming obsessed kid!)

That ratio has made my evening.
So many women saved from catastrophic injury... and paving the way for other sports to hopefully follow suit. Dr Nic is a heroine!

We will not stop fighting until every trans person is accepted without exception

Accepted as what? The opposite sex? Not all “trans” people think they’re the opposite sex. According to Stonewall, some are cross-dressers. What are they to be accepted as?!

Isn't it going to be very hard for clubs to get insurance if transwomen are playing in women's teams? If a woman was injured the liability could be huge as the club would have known the risks and ignored them.

In criminal law E+W, foreseeing the risk and going ahead anyway is “reckless” so in this context I wonder how that pans out?

We will not stop fighting until every trans person is accepted without exception

Dear God. Talk about wankery. Without exception is so passé and now recognised as riding a coach and horses through safeguarding.

Still, better you tell everyone than not.

It’s just laughable

Stonewall - we are campaigning against misogyny

Also stonewall - Male born ppl should be allowed to play women’s rugby because saying no makes them sad