Langcleg is vindicated

Is that one wearing a Compo from Last of the Summer Wine, hat?

That is the Venus of Willendorf, I'll have you know - a very interesting icon from prehistory, and some have postulated that it came from a matriarchal society.

Frankly, I'm a fan of the Sheelnagig. A sort of spiritual, feminine middle finger. You have to imagine it has teeth to get the full effect, imo.

Come now Tinsel, the suffering would be as nothing compared to the the joy of having our beloved saggy-titted one returned to us

I comfort myself with the thought that it is an unlikely scenario that MNHQ will say "Oh alright, Lang can come back, but only if Tinsel eats the WBH"

Michelle's point about the wider political agenda is an important one.

I was cringing last night at Nicky Morgan on HIGNFY, whose attempts to bat away Paul & Ian's barbs were not as funny as she thought they were. More concerning was that she seemed to imply that she had been trained to respond in that way. No debate. Stick to the message and carry on.

No wonder we have ended up where we are with Covid when the chosen experts are the only ones listened too.

And no wonder the be carry on and be kind brigade have to put their fingers in their ears when knowledgeable woah-there-a-minute-that's-a-safeguarding-issue people get in the way.

I've absolutely no idea how you could have shades of grey in safeguarding.

And that was the beauty of Lang. She understood the issue inside out and backwards. There was never a situation where safeguarding was applicable, that she didn't absolutely bloody nail.

YY. NO SACRED CASTES.

I've said it before but I'd eat any number of bowls of that hellish concoction that is the notorious WBH if we could have Lang return..

So would I. gulp

Question: is the banning of langcleg something that has produced an effective which amplifies her point?

Agree with Butterer

If someone urging 'kindness' and 'respect' and 'tolerance for other views' was doing it from a place of a genuinely held value lived by and desired impartially from all, I could hold respect for that.

But it never is. In the context it is used, it's nothing more than a command for service owed with no reciprocation involved. It might as well be a bark of 'obey me'. The words used in this context are as meaningless as 'inclusion' and 'intersectionality': just buzzwords perceived as powerful and therefore hopefully helpful in making people do what the speaker wants from them, and used without any understanding of their meaning. Without shared meaning, words become useless in service of communication.

This is the whole unsolvable problem with the wider political agenda mentioned above. It is not possible to have a purposeful interaction when one party is working from objective, demonstrable fact as truth and another party is prioritising a selective, subjective and personal truth. There is no shared meaning from which the two parties can work together.

There are limits people

I'm kinda taking heart at just how much Lang is still getting up people's noses though. Attagirl.

Same here.

I've absolutely no idea how you could have shades of grey in safeguarding.

And that was the beauty of Lang. She understood the issue inside out and backwards. There was never a situation where safeguarding was applicable, that she didn't absolutely bloody nail.

Safeguarding is the key to maintaining safety for women and children. Which is why the Tavistock clinicians being instructed to bypass it is breathtaking. The very centre of the issue for vulnerable children deliberately swerves safeguarding.

Lang had an uncanny ability to see all the permutations where safeguarding wasn't prioritised.

She just knew exactly what she was talking about. And wasn't afraid to say so.

And that's why she's targeted.

Yy RedToothBrush.

Yes good to see her influence is still here.

Hope she is reading and snorting about how she can still get up noses

When you're discussing child safeguarding, it is black and white

But as a friend said to me at work this week, Some people don't like having difficult conversations.

"Be kind" doesn't belong in safeguarding. If a child, teen or vulnerable adult is being groomed we have to act. We have to have those discussions.

I'm kinda taking heart at just how much Lang is still getting up people's noses though. Attagirl.

I've said it before but I'd eat any number of bowls of that hellish concoction that is the notorious WBH if we could have Lang return..

Do I want her back much? 🤔

🤣

Lies and liars trying to force their lies on us and make liars of us too.

No.

Kaiserin - well said.

Funny also how the word manipulators shout victim when they are called things they dont want to be called, like TRA for example. But women have to accept the words that describe their sex bring expanded to include the opposite sex, cos 'kindness'

@SophocIestheFox

Weetabix box shrine with Compo style saggy titted idol

I miss Lang every day on these boards, and think often of her and the other women that we've lost like Angry/Prodigal Kittens to name but one.

I don't think I'd properly and fully considered what safeguarding was until posters such as Lang helped to clarify it. Just one of the countless things I've learned over the years of being on these boards.

I've said it before but I'd eat any number of bowls of that hellish concoction that is the notorious WBH if we could have Lang return..

It was quite telling in the thread i was on yesterday how little thought about science and evidence had been given to children and transmen within parts of the trans community.

I don't like gender but i also think in legal terms its not going away.

But this is where sex must also be seen and valued as an important factor in lived experience.

The reality is the phrase 'trans' is referential to sex. Gender identity doesn't exist in a world without sex.

We need to see both. And protect vulnerable along both lines.

Those who try to pass under the radar dont recognise how this does harm to others or allows harm to others from others. This isnt ok. Its not a reality which is workable.

You cant be a woman if you arent one. Sex still exists. That doesn't mean you have to live by male stereotypes but its not ok to erase womens boundaries by stealth or guilt either.

Well said. Kaiserin.

@RedToothBrush

Wish these boards had a like button.

I'm not a good feminist.
Like a true rad-fem, I can see the challenges (and opportunities) inherent to sex... but in my head, I don't center women as a class (sorry!). I'm too focused on individuals, and individual freedom, and wary of labels and generalisations.
Yet I also think gender is irritating, mind-numbing bollocks, so I can't claim to be a proper lib-fem either, mind you (not that I'd want to)

... But I do take offense at speech which seems to disrespect basic facts, and constantly seeks to rewrite reality. At words being redefined till language means nothing at all. At this unenlightened post-truth world. At lying liars who lie (typically, with self-serving, nefarious intent)
That's my red line.
And that's why I'm here (on these boards). We don't all have to agree on the same things to find common ground: material reality exists. It matters. Social norms may come and go and be reformed, but we all live in the real world, and if someone tries to destroy my (our) ability to talk about the real world in an intelligible fashion, then suddenly I feel very angry indeed... Because this is coercion. This is 1984 Newspeak. It's an unacceptable infringement on my mental freedom. And it (incidentally) enables all kind of abusive behaviour to go unnoticed (you can't talk about what you can't name).
No. FUCKING. Way.

That was after pelleas post, fast moving thread