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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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80 replies

Gottalife · 07/10/2020 16:59

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-54448646

OP posts:
AvocadoBathroom · 08/10/2020 02:43

No excuse for homophobia. Unfortunately this woman is what people think GC Feminists are. Could have done without her hogging any media space to be honest.
Yes you can be GC and religious or spiritual.
There are many Gay, Lesbian and Trans GC people.
I was on a JK fan group on FB at one point and a lovely TM I know was getting harassed by a nut job saying to him that trans people were (insert all insults here) - admin eventually threw him out after I reported him a bunch of times...but this isn’t what GC sane people do. I don’t know what this woman had written but when I first saw this story it seemed that she was being blanket homophobic. I wouldn’t want to be associated with her. One report I saw on Humanists UK says that she said that she was telling students they would go to hell for being gay or bad Christians.
So yeah... no thanks,

NiceGerbil · 08/10/2020 02:41

Ok.

I think it's unlikely that schools are teaching that literally all relationships are valid. And the indications seem to be that she was talking about gay people.

I think if you can find anything to suggest she was literally having to promote incest etc as aok in school then let's talk about it.

But, that's a very odd stretch.

Deliriumoftheendless · 08/10/2020 02:05

@Quaagars

"I am aware that same-sex marriages are now recognised under UK law, but I believe that is contrary to God's law - which only recognises marriages between one man and one woman," she said in her statement

Yep, seems pretty clear was referring to gay and lesbian relationships if said that.
Not paedophile relationships, or abusive ones.
Hope you just missed that post

Whilst it’s obvious from other comments quoted that this is a homophobic statement I’d just like to add that there does need to be more clarification on “all relationships are valid” to discuss what is and isn’t appropriate in a relationship.

I say this (and sorry to derail) because in a previous job I worked with girls who were at risk of CSA (which in reality meant girls who had been groomed into CSA by much older men) and telling them all relationships are valid would go against what we were teaching them about their own boundaries as they believed themselves to be in genuine relationships rather than be caught up with predators. And whilst we were a specialist service all these girls came to us from mainstream settings.

So whilst I think schools should be teaching that same sex relationships are fine and normal, a blanket “all relationships” would actually be quite harmful to those girls.

NiceGerbil · 08/10/2020 01:23

I'm keen to hear from the op.

What's your take OP?

Posted without comment. There's been a bit of conversation, what do you make of it all?

Did you get what you hoped from the thread?

NiceGerbil · 08/10/2020 01:21

Well quite.

The woman had issues that she posted (what exactly?) about on social media around the content of school sex ed.

Now I've seen some bizarre stuff on here recently around sex ed but it's a bit of a leap to assume that she was worried about having to teach her students that paedophilic relationships were 'valid'.

And waaay more likely that when she references 'normal' relationships, as a Christian, she's talking about gay people.

I mean both are guesses and we don't know exactly what she said. But on the balance of probability, I'd go with homophobia.

This thread is veeeery interesting....

On being sacked for what you say on social media. That's a tough one. My line is different to someone else's. The UK line is different to China etc etc.

It's a thorny one. In the old days a teacher could espouse dodgy opinions to like minded friends, never mention them at work, and be an excellent teacher or whatever.

Now. It's all there for anyone to see. It's a new thing we as a society and globally need to get to grips with.

On the one hand you have NSPCC rubber man being defended by employer. On the other hand you have this woman being sacked.

Who is pure of thought? And who decides what is pure?

OTOH if an excellent teacher is bang into Nazi stuff on their social media, I mean I wouldn't be comfy, who would?

Quaagars · 08/10/2020 01:09

"I am aware that same-sex marriages are now recognised under UK law, but I believe that is contrary to God's law - which only recognises marriages between one man and one woman," she said in her statement

Yep, seems pretty clear was referring to gay and lesbian relationships if said that.
Not paedophile relationships, or abusive ones.
Hope you just missed that post

Quaagars · 08/10/2020 01:05

Well of course paedophilia is not valid and completely disgusting and wrong, FFS.
JC, knew when I posted it somebody would probably say "relationships with children isn't OK"
Thought that went without saying, why would anyone be saying that to kids?
Seems out of context.
All relationships as in gay, lesbian, straight families.

BlackWaveComing · 08/10/2020 00:30

@highame

I don't know what the comments were but if she did say things that were homophobic / transphobic then I'm not comfortable. This issue of women's rights is throwing up all sorts of discomfort but it doesn't mean that I have to be happy with someone being transphobic just because trans rights are clashing with mine
This.

I don't believe in ppl being sacked for what they post in their private time/name.

I also don't believe in giving homophobia or actual transphobia from 'our' side a pass.

Kantastic · 08/10/2020 00:29

Yep, there in the article - that seems homophobic to me if you were to have a problem with that

Not necessarily? It's a terrible thing to teach children that "all relationships are equally valid and normal." Some relationships are abusive, exploitative or pedophilic. Like everyone else my mind went to homophobia upon first reading that, but we don't actually know what was in this material, or what implications she was objecting to. We all know that there is some very dodgy education material out there.

Also even if it was homophobia I don't think sacking her is right. We can't just eradicate everyone from society who has views we don't like. Homophobes have to eat too. There's no indication anywhere that she was promoting homophobia in the school or publicly associating the school with homophobia, both of which I agree would be very reasonable grounds for sacking.

DidoLamenting · 08/10/2020 00:26

This is a statement rather than what she posted.

Ms Higgs explained her religious beliefs in her statement and said she believed that "God created mankind as 'male and female' and what He has created is good".

She added: "He does not make mistakes

"I am aware that same-sex marriages are now recognised under UK law, but I believe that is contrary to God's law - which only recognises marriages between one man and one woman," she said in her statement.

Quaagars · 07/10/2020 23:42

One post referred to "brainwashing" children and said they would "be taught that all relationships are equally valid and 'normal'".

Yep, there in the article - that seems homophobic to me if you were to have a problem with that

Quaagars · 07/10/2020 23:40

One post referred to "brainwashing" children and said they would "be taught that all relationships are equally valid and 'normal'"

If this is one of the comments, isn't that homophobic?
What's wrong with letting children know that all relationships are valid and normal?

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 20:03

Omg I've having a change of heart.

Despite being a life long lefty marchy socially conscious type with natural athiest temperament despite being raised RC and feminist before I knew the word...

I am suddenly red hot keen on supporting the imposition of strict sex roles and heteronormativity!

Gosh. It's a revelation.

I was so so wrong about what I saw as the terrible shit meted out to women and girls and also to homosexual people especially men around the world! How could I have been so blind!

Gosh.

I might screenshot that for my personal album 🙂

Redshoeblueshoe · 07/10/2020 19:53

Absolutely Errol

ErrolTheDragon · 07/10/2020 19:48

Without seeing what she said, it's pretty pointless trying to discuss this. If what she said was homophobic and transphobic then sure, the dismissal was justified.

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 19:05

That Christian article doesn't say what she actually said.

Another recent case with a teacher dismissed for 'transphobia' it sounds like he was being a total and utter dick to a child. In which case yes he needs to be sacked. You can't have teachers bullying children no matter what they believe.

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 19:02

'One post referred to "brainwashing" children and said they would "be taught that all relationships are equally valid and 'normal'".

This screams homophobia to me.

Whether people should be losing their jobs over social media stuff is a complex question and a different one...

I feel uncomfortable with this thread.

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 19:00

'Many GC women/ people are lesbians/gay/bi

And I suspect even more of us aren't.'

Your point being?

My point was that ??? about trans issues for most on these boards come from a different place to right wing religious concerns. Lefty lesbians are unlikely to be homophobic, see.

Your point is...

WarOnWomen · 07/10/2020 18:28

@Siameasy

Be good to know what she actually said. If I criticised my workplace/organisation on social media I would probably be in trouble. Hard to say.

2 Facebook messages:

The first post encouraged friends and family to sign a petition challenging the government’s plans to introduce Relationships and Sex Education (RSE) to children in primary schools. The post flagged that a government consultation on plans to make RSE mandatory for children as young as four was coming to a close, and asked its readers to sign a nationwide petition calling on the government to uphold the rights of parents to have children educated in line with their religious beliefs.

In the second post, Kristie shared an article from Judybeth.com on the rise of transgender ideology in children’s books in American schools and added her own comment: “This is happening in our primary schools now.”

From this comprehensive article:

christianconcern.com/news/tribunal-rules-christian-could-be-fired-for-facebook-post-raising-rse-concerns/

Siameasy · 07/10/2020 18:09

Be good to know what she actually said.
If I criticised my workplace/organisation on social media I would probably be in trouble.
Hard to say.

highame · 07/10/2020 17:36

I don't know what the comments were but if she did say things that were homophobic / transphobic then I'm not comfortable. This issue of women's rights is throwing up all sorts of discomfort but it doesn't mean that I have to be happy with someone being transphobic just because trans rights are clashing with mine

QuentinWinters · 07/10/2020 17:34

Can't really comment as they haven't reported what she actually said. But teachers can't be putting homophones views on social media. And she may well have been. I've heard some Christian colleagues say quite shocking things about homosexuality/equal marriage and cover it with their view that they are entitled to say that because of the Bible. It isn't OK.

WarOnWomen · 07/10/2020 17:34

I think her Facebook was locked down to friends only but depends how many friends and how close.

For me, it's about conflicts of rights again, religion this time. And she was sharing concerns about RSE provision at her child's school.

WarOnWomen · 07/10/2020 17:30

One can be GC and religious

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 07/10/2020 17:29

Many GC women/ people are lesbians/gay/bi

And I suspect even more of us aren't.