An Irish obstetrician speaks out: bring back "women".

@wellbehavedwomen this is 100% what it is all about. However if you upset this lobby, even on this board, you risk censure as @Cailleach1 and I have

'I suppose the only solution is to have one word that means the social role of men/women and one that conveys the physical reality. But 'females' and 'female people' sound cold, and I'm not sure it would be acceptable to everyone anyway.'

Feminine/ masculine used to work as descriptors of sex role stereotypes.

Big fan of Dr Boylan, he was my consultant for dc's birth. He has a stellar combo of massive clinical experience and zero fucks about anything other than good medicine.

'Women' has been rendered problematic now (unless referring to TW, of course) so female is the new battle front - see this very doctor talk about 'transitioning to a male' even in the context of retained female biology? If we don't push back against all co-option of language, as we are doing, we'll lose all capacity to define women.

A group who dreamed up 'cis' for us should be more than able to determine a new way to describe their own. Why the determination, from a group of male people, to co-opt a female group's descriptor - when that descriptor is the only way in which the female group can defend their sex-based rights, in law?

Answers on a postcard.

"There are a lot of people for example who might not understand what a cervix is, but they do understand what a woman is.

Exactly this.

I agree we need to ensure transmen and NB people access care. I just don't think doing so by jeopardising women's care is acceptable. And it's good to see clinicians speaking up on this one.

Ah, I didn't just receive a deletion, but a strike on the other thread. I am entitled to my opinion about any belief or ideology which I think is beyond bonkers.

The only thing I can see this fervent, misogynistic ideology equates with is something like transubstantiation or another nebulous religious belief.

We're back in the middle ages! Witchfinders in my view are the TRA's and their handmaidens. Heresy (or even just not indulging and pandering to notions) is the crime. They tread more carefully with men, but love attacking women. They love their misogyny under another guise. Lots of wannabe 'Witch finder Generals' /inadequates acting out their fantasies, in my opinion.

People who hated women and who had very strange and wrong supernatural beliefs had great influence in the middle ages too. They regarded what science proved to be illness as possession.

Words already exist to describe each of the two sexes in humans. Same as the descriptor of the two sexes in other mammals. Female and Male.

Also, there are even more specific words to describe juvenile and adult stages of both sexes. Girl and boy for juvenile. Woman and Man for adults.

Even Irish has it. Baineann agus Fireann. Cailín agus Buachaill. Bean agus Fear.

They all represent a biological reality. Existential notions and beliefs needs other words. Not to try and excoriate the meaning of descriptors of reality.

This is all caused by people trying to slot an ideology into place that just doesn't fit. It's very nice trying to spare the feelings of female people who don't want to be called women, but .. there's a denial of reality going on here, and that has repercussions.

I suppose the only solution is to have one word that means the social role of men/women and one that conveys the physical reality. But 'females' and 'female people' sound cold, and I'm not sure it would be acceptable to everyone anyway.

OMG - sorry, I am a spelling geek - that should be 'you're"

Now, I appreciate Dr. Boylan (or is it Professor?) getting involved but my God, why, in 2020 do we have to let men speak for women?

Also, no surprise Dr. Ciara Kelly (yes a GP so medically qualified) stands on the trans side.

Sensible guy. It shouldn’t be necessary for him to state his qualifications as regards trans people, for fear that he gets written off as Awful Bigot Knownothing, as that does kind of leave women who arent surgeons in that category. But still, the more the merrier.

If a person can’t cope with the word woman, then how on earth are they going to cope with going to the gynaecologist? Stirrups, speculum, discussing your periods etc. I keep banging on about this, but mangling the language like this isn’t helping anyone. even if you don’t give a shit about women, it’s not kind to the trans people it’s supposed to help, because it’s further obfuscating their access to and engagement with healthcare. At some point, reality will intrude, and pretending it won’t simply can’t be helpful.

Thank you Dr Boylan straight forward no nonsense simple information is what's needed in regards to medical treatment especially something as important as cancer screening.
Cervical cancer does not care about gender identity or feelings of those without a cervix it only ever effects woman and girls ie biological females and those are exactly the target audience needed to come forward for screening :women

There are a lot of people for example who might not understand what a cervix is, but they do understand what a woman is.

if I have been a woman but have transed into a male, I still have cervix unless I've had a hysterectomy with removal of the cervix.

Interesting, that he regards male and female as the states which are altered when someone undergoes 'gender transitioning'. Not the man and woman monikers.

Mná na hEireann are lucky a man or male (I'm being presumptuous) came out and said it. Gives it more credibility. Not bitter at all. The activists and handmaidens who got to define the nothingness of womanhood, in a 85% male Dáil, won't direct their 'terf' slurs and rapey vitriol at him.

Funnily enough for such true believers in gender fluidity, they know exactly the difference between a man and a woman when it involves threats and slurs.

Me too JellySlice.

It's fair to say that he won't be receiving death and rape threats simply for expressing a commonly held, reality based point of view.

Very sensible.
It strikes me that the use of ‘inclusive’ language in such situations shows that the offending organisation cares more about the feelings of a very small number of people than they do about the actual cancer, which is a pretty screwed up set of priorities. Some clinicians thankfully seem to feel the same, I hope more speak out.

Very sensible and reasonable

Good to hear a doctor being so clear and truthful. Reminds me of the gynaecologist who was bleeped to A & E to see a MtF who was having trouble after GRS. She advised them that the patient might benefit from seeing a gastroenterologist or possibly a urologist but a gynaecologist had nothing to contribute.

Not that I'm objecting to men speaking up for common sense, it just irks me that it's somehow different when a man speaks.

Boylan is great.

Excellent

Good. We need more many women’s health clinicians to speak up about women’s healthcare being the fundamental priority, above the emotional validation of others.

I heard some of that on the radio this morning. How transphobic of him to assume the necessity for gender reassignment surgery