Times: Chemist sells hormones for kids online

I imagine mad is going to try and make a correlation between the fact that left-handedness is generally more accepted, and that's why there is more of them now.

🙄

@RedToothBrush
And detransitioners are shamed by the trans community as being traitors or fakes etc.

Absolute bollocks. Most trans people have nothing but respect and sympathy for detranisitioners, not all of whom detrans b/c they are not trans, but b/c transitioning is too hard for them. We are all gender questioning people, wherever we end up.

If anything they are groomed by GCers looking for political capital. Thats why reddit kept shutting down the detrans subs.

How do we know the number of detransitioners when we aren't doing anything to research these numbers?

We've got numbers for the Tavistock who transition... but no one ever follows them up.

Even without the detransitioners, we still have limited knowledge of the long term medical problems by those who transition. It’s highly likely as a result of decades of incorrect hormones with or without surgery that trans people suffer an increase in problems in their 30s, 40s, 50s and so on. There are already studies that show this in small numbers as well as case reports (increased risk of cancer and stroke for example).

HRT indeed. Such claptrap.

Did you know that the number of left handed people in the world has increased sevenfold in the last 100 years? Why do you think that is?

But being left handed is a provable physical thing - I'm left handed, I can't write with my right hand. That's how I know I am left handed.

There is nothing to prove that people are actually born in the wrong body. Even Mermaids say so now! We are now told that we were 'unbelievably dumb' to think that people meant the wrong body thing 'literally'.

So what we are left with are people feeling like they are born in the wrong body. So cases of gender dysphoria have risen a lot in the last few years. I think that any reasonable person would want to investigate exactly why so many young people are now feeling like their physical body is 'wrong'.

Did you know that the number of left handed people in the world has increased sevenfold in the last 100 years? Why do you think that is?

Nothing like a completely fucking irrelevant straw man argument to prove you are talking out your arse.

People at 16 make lots of decisions that they later regret, eg to have or to not have a baby. What to study at uni. Whether to or not have chemotherapy for cancer.

🎶 "One of these things is not like the others" 🎶

Whilst every person who regrets transitioning is deeply sad, these numbers are by far eclipsed by the thousands and thousands who, like me, would have benefited by transitioning earlier.

How do we know the number of detransitioners when we aren't doing anything to research these numbers?

We've got numbers for the Tavistock who transition... but no one ever follows them up.

Cos thats transphobic.

And detransitioners are shamed by the trans community as being traitors or fakes etc. And worse than the 'bigot feminists' because they disprove the 'positive affirmation only model' as being a long of bullshit.

They are regarded as nothing more than 'collatoral damage'. I mean look at the wording above - as sad as it is. Detransistioners are worth nothing, but to comment that its sad and that all the trans people are more important.

Detransistioners are a nuisance. An inconvience that no one wants to take responsibility for. We have made some progress in them now having their existence acknowledged though...

So there's no incentive in 'coming out' as a detransitioner. Something thats hard enough given how much you invest you life in before.

How many more would detransition if they thought the community wouldn't shun them?

But yes, all we get is 'its a little bit sad' with no real thought about accountability as to why harm was ever allowed to happen to them.

It says it all.

You are not on HRT, you are on cross sex hormones. You are not 'replacing' hormones that your body no longer naturally produces, you are taking hormones that your body has never, and would never, naturally produce. Its not comparable to a woman on HRT, what a strange thing to say.

Absolutely.

And describing hormones as 'addictive' is ludicrous. I'm sure there are more than one or two women here on HRT. Are you addicted? I'm taking exactly the same medicine as you are, and probably at the same dose.

You are not on HRT, you are on cross sex hormones. You are not 'replacing' hormones that your body no longer naturally produces, you are taking hormones that your body has never, and would never, naturally produce. Its not comparable to a woman on HRT, what a strange thing to say.

And I would say that a clinic run by a doctor who is infamously dodgy and ran an illegal, unlicensed clinic prescribing cross sex hormones hormones to 12 year olds, and now operates from abroad is pretty 'Black market' to me.

Sorry, that was to Escapeplanning

Yep

[quote MadBadDaddy]@Datun
They'll reduc all right. As soon as schools nationwide start abiding by the government advice to stop teaching gender ideology, stop no platforming people who object to it, and demand an evidence base for all of it, certainly the children queueing up at gender clinics will plummet.

Did you know that the number of left handed people in the world has increased sevenfold in the last 100 years? Why do you think that is?[/quote]
Are people literally 'born in the wrong body'?

I agreee Eresh, invest in better mental health care this has got to be the highest priority. Really listening to and working with children to help them cope with adolescence. Help them realise that their bodies will change as they mature and that's fine.

It’s clear there is a large cohort of people all around the world who have been administered affirmative medical treatments despite there being no evidence at the time that they helped, and now with emerging evidence that they do not. Irreparable harm has been done as a result - infertility, poor sexual function, long term cardiovascular risk and so on.

It is NOT the fault of posters on Mumsnet FWR.

It’s not OUR fault that you have been subjected to this poor quality, poor evidence based therapy done over the Internet.

It’s not OUR fault that no one told you the treatments have been experimental.

It’s not OUR fault that no one told you they were being prescribed and administered outside of the normal regulatory processes.

It’s not OUR pleasure that this has happened to children.

It IS our relief that maybe, just maybe, this will prevent more irreparable and irreversible harm will be done.

This anger needs to be directed at the right people: the doctors who sold you - both the idea and the drugs - medications that they led you to believe were the answer, in a manner not befitting modern day high standard medical practice.

Gender GP is grey market, not black market. The black market already exists, and my original post was about how terrible it would be if that was all there was. You all ignored that, but that what you are supporting.

And describing hormones as 'addictive' is ludicrous. I'm sure there are more than one or two women here on HRT. Are you addicted? I'm taking exactly the same medicine as you are, and probably at the same dose.

Whilst every person who regrets transitioning is deeply sad, these numbers are by far eclipsed by the thousands and thousands who, like me, would have benefited by transitioning earlier. Alex I'll ask but I don't want you to be offended I'm just very interested.

When you say you would have benefitted from transitioning earlier, are you unhappy with your transition?

IIRC when the Swedish government recently ran an enquiry into the efficacy of puberty blockers, the demand fell by 65% in just 6 months.

If the same thing happens here in response to Keira's case then there will hardly be queues for trans services. If anything those extra three proposed clinics may well be redundant.

@Datun
They'll reduc all right. As soon as schools nationwide start abiding by the government advice to stop teaching gender ideology, stop no platforming people who object to it, and demand an evidence base for all of it, certainly the children queueing up at gender clinics will plummet.

Did you know that the number of left handed people in the world has increased sevenfold in the last 100 years? Why do you think that is?

Whilst every person who regrets transitioning is deeply sad, these numbers are by far eclipsed by the thousands and thousands who, like me, would have benefited by transitioning earlier.

When you say 'earlier' how 'early' are we talking here?

They'll reduc all right. As soon as schools nationwide start abiding by the government advice to stop teaching gender ideology, stop no platforming people who object to it, and demand an evidence base for all of it, certainly the children queueing up at gender clinics will plummet.

I agree. Let's give that a go, and invest in better mental health care.

I mean, why even bother with regulating healthcare.