Times: Chemist sells hormones for kids online

If your doctor doesnt have whats best for your healthcare in mind you should absolutely try to find one who will. I intend to start creating a resource list of GPs who are known to be very accommodating and supportive of their trans patient’s needs.

I think this is whats known as doctor shopping? And is generally considered a Very Bad Thing, in any other circumstance.

I find it odd how GPs who are not willing to jump straight to medication, do not have whats best for the patients healthcare in mind according to transactivist types.

I will be creating a guide to self-medication and sources you can obtain medication from as I gather that information.

I do wonder with what other medical condition, such focus on self medicating would be a good thing apparently. I think this is a large part of the 'problem' with young teens and such actually. Go online, see a bunch of stuff like this, and it almost seems normal to just medicate with what other random people tell you to do?! Its so fucking dangerous. Drugs are more importat than any other treatment that may actually be better for you as an individual (I agree medication and transition will likely be the best path for some people, but the HCP should be absolutely sure in their mind that its right for the patient, not bullied into it..or being basically lied to by patients who have read online exactly how to answer questions to get 'the required result' ). Any doctor not willing to instantly dole out drugs is not looking out for your interests. Again, I cannot think of any area where it is expected doctors just give the patient what they ask for instead of what they think might help them! Its just so..different from every single area of healthcare, and the expectations also are hugely different. The assumption that its just because press, GPs etc are just 'out to get' trans peple is bizarre. 2 year waiting lists are probably about average, if not a LOT quicker than treatment for many other conditions.

The main issue here is that the earlier treatment starts, the more you get out of it. Even after puberty is finished, I recall a study that showed the earlier someone transition, the more likely that even bone density/mass will be effected; resulting in...a let's say... more confidence building transition shape. If you can get in before puberty then all the better.
And here in lies the problem.

And here in lies the problem indeed. To me, (and I think many others on this thread) treatment for this distress should involve much mental health and comorbidity assessment rather than medication from the start. So, yes medicalisation should be a long way down the line. Studies have shown that not dealing with these issues and comorbities is incredibly dangerous to mental health. I am sure you too have read this.

As far as early treatment for confidence building transition shape, this is where I will not agree. Why isn’t there more ‘bandwidth’ expanding going on in the trans community to discourage the need for children to be put on track for so much physical damage. Really? Is it really acceptable for children to not be able to experience orgasm, ever? And have their lives shortened. All to fit stereotypes that should be abolished?

medium.com/@notCursedE/the-gendergp-situation-bfa03becb434

A transactivists take on it all. Interesting, and I actually mean that. This bit though..

The email and tweets they sent out claim that due to negative media attention, the Pharmacy Regulator have stopped the chemist they use from honouring prescriptions. In short this means that the chemist will no longer be able to send out any medications from GenderGP prescriptions.

I have contacted the Pharmacy Regulator to ask them for a first hand explanation as to why they have chosen this course of action. However they have so far fobbed me off by saying “The matter is still ongoing. We will get back to you when we have anything further”. Needless to say this answer isn’t sufficient, and seems to imply that they don’t actually have a reason yet. Which is frankly terrible, and seems to imply that the regulator have reacted to negative media attention without due care for those whose lives rely on the service.

Because the regulator will not give indepth answers to randomers contacting them about an ongoing investigation, they clearly have no reason for doing what they did, and infact only did it because of a negative press story. This is pure fantasy. Things do not work that way, at all.

First time I've ever gotten level headed responses on the internet :) .

@Winesalot
And why is GD desperation so bad that people turn to internet prescriptions?

I understand where you're coming from and in most cases to do with prescriptions I would agree with you. The main issue here is that the earlier treatment starts, the more you get out of it. Even after puberty is finished, I recall a study that showed the earlier someone transition, the more likely that even bone density/mass will be effected; resulting in...a let's say... more confidence building transition shape. If you can get in before puberty then all the better.
And here in lies the problem.

I want to agree with you and say that GenderGP are horrifically in the wrong. I do believe their treatments to be safe but at the same time the service was far too accessible. Good for those who are 100% going to benefit from their service but bad for the few who unfortunately regret their transition. I also don't want them to shut down because regardless of the problems, they help a lot of people. Children included.
So, a difficult situation for children and parents. Wait 3/4 years (in distress) + a year of appointments before hormones can start with NHS, hit puberty and deal with it's irreversible (without surgical intervention) effects but get a decent chance to actually talk with someone who will actually talk it out fully with you (or your child) in a thorough manner.
OR
Get Started. Like... now.

Now apply anything in life to the concept of long winded and painful vs quick and reckless and see if we can spot a pattern. I'm not arguing for or against. It's not an issue that will get sorted here nor is there a 100% right or wrong. Just wanted to give an insight.

Fucking hell, just read the statement..

UP TO 3 weeks for meds?! Would have thought 3 weeks was a flukey quick prescribe, one in a thousand kind of thing if any at all. Not the norm and indeed, the target?!

but when i see people opposing opening up more GICs that hurts. that's a direct assault on my ability to access what i need to live a healthy, full life.

I have to say, I have not seen many at all oppsed to increasing availability of healthcare for trans people? Infact, when the GRA stuff resulted in more trans healthcare being pledged, I saw many on here happy about this. It was transactivists who were kicking off about that result! Where to be honest, I would have thought that would help much much more than anything else. Given the reaction and how Truss is transpobic for this apparently, I assumed I must be wrong that it was a good thing that more centres were being done. Apparently thats not what transpeople wanted (according to TRAs anyway) as what was wanted was selfID instead. A little odd really, given te main concern seemed to be lack of access to healthcare and long waiting lists.

Actually the statement from gender gp itself is more disturbing than a "bugger off cis people" tweet.

www.gendergp.com/gendergp-proud-to-support-trans-community-response-to-journalist/

It can take up to 3 weeks for them to prescribe puberty blockers or hormones.

They will prescribe blockers from 12 years old.

They treat the condition not the age of the person.

Interesting they have done some investigating, wonder what prompted it?

Quite. Some of the replies about the mirror are, interesting

twitter.com/lilystringworm/status/1314644491274461185

Because kids being fasttracked to strong medicatio by someone who is suspended to start with, is not any kind of important issue eh. Of course not.

This one I find a bit upsetting in all honesty

twitter.com/SophieTews/status/1314549786842927104

'Cis' people shouldn't be concerned that this kind of shit is going on. So many seem to be convinced that Webberlys way is perfectly fine and normal and its just people attacking trans people that have caused the investigation, rather that Webberlys practise being..dodgy as fuck.

Still trying to frame this whole thing in a way I might better understand given I have had issues with massive waiting lists and stuff yself but for other reasons. I cannot imagine people kicking off and crying disablism or something, if an online opiate shop got shut down. Of course, the opiates are helpful to those in pain. It takes months to get them the proper way so we should just allow such places to operate ad if not, anyone who complains is just disablist? Its even fine to fill kids with these drugs, as kids have pain conditions too. Its disgusting that people are concerned that this is happening even though it doesn't affect the people who are horrified by the situation (even if their kids are buying frm there, its for their own good so leave them be, bigt!) and its clearly just a load of people wanting others to suffer longterm pain as they hate them. There is nothing to be concerned about, and of course its a great thing that such GPs exist who are willing to 'colour outside of the lines' as the wait for pain clinics is long and pain conditions can make people more likely to self harm due to their very nature. So piss off and leave me alone to get my morphine online after nothing but a skype convo with someone who is currently suspended in the UK, who is so concerned about people who are in pain that they moved to another country and found a loophole in order to keep supplying me and people like me with strong pain medications, for a high cost also but she really just cares about us unlike anyone else, honest! Unlike those who think medical pathways should be evidence based and procedures followed properly, even if that might mean a bit of a wait. If you disagree, you are just mean and disablist and you are taking away the lifeline of many people in pain, I hope you are proud of yourselves, you have driven me to visit the dealer down the street instead now, by being concerned about me buying online. All your fault. And the fault of my GP who did not immediately grant me my wish of morphine when I said I was in pain, and instead referred me to somehwere I might get other help (like physio) rather than just given the meds immediately, which takes even longer and is much much worse! Give me the medication, I know better that medically qualified people, they are just out to get me, and people like me clearly, as are the public who were horrified to learn of the existence of an online site that fast tracks people onto morphine or stronger as why should we ever have to wait?!

Like, it sounds ridiculous. While tis true waiting lists are massively shit, its never a good thing for others to find loopholes to sell medication that you possibly shouldn't even have or could even potentially give you more problems than you started with. I really really understand what its like waiting for proper help. I still will not agree that the answer is allowing people like Webberly to continue skirting the rules, the rules are there for a reason.

@Signalbox - it is right. The GMC has no powers at all to prevent a struck off doctor practising elsewhere in the world. They would tell another regulator if asked. The doctor should tell the overseas regulator. But the final decision rests with that regulator. If it's unfortunately one where the they're not so stringent as UK, most of Europe, Canada, Australia etc the doctor could work and the GMC couldn't do anything.

Striking her off would only prevent her working in the U.K. as a doctor

I don't think this is quite right. If you are struck off in one country you would find it very difficult to register in another (certainly within Europe). I read somewhere that HW is currently working in a "non-medical advocacy capacity" or something like that so presumably the Webberleys have hired registered Doctors to fill out prescriptions for patients and carry out the medical consultations etc. I still don't think it'll go well for HW. She has zero insight which obviously makes her a risk to patients.

Rather than attacking the company, the boards should have been encouraged to work with them as an alternative means, as this would not only provide a private (and very affordable) option for people, but would have relieved some of the pressure off the NHS services AND could have been monitored more closely.

This doesn't sound unreasonable in principle, but this particular company is unsuitable for this for a number of reasons.

GenderGP was set up by Helen Webberley. In 2018, she was prosecuted for running an illegal clinic, found guilty, fined, and as a result now has a criminal record.

Even before this, she was being investigated for prescribing testosterone to a 12 year old girl, and was subsequently suspended from practising in the UK. Her husband, also a medical doctor, took over the prescribing until he, too, was suspended. Both are still suspended and investigations continue.

Are there no other private doctors in the UK who work in this area?

comparing GGP to a backroom abortion provider? what you even talking about? i got compassionate, professional care from them.

Good customer service doesn't mean you are acting ethically or have a customers best interests at heart.

they don't all effect me, but that doesn't stop me feeling solidarity, compassion and often anger. i've never needed an abortion but i will fight like hell for access for those that do.

Problem is we aren't being allowed to fight for issues that DO affect us or our children.

And we aren't allowed to raise questions about standards and why people bypass carepath ways and ethics without the criticism of having some sort of extreme view.

Lets spell this out. It is not an extreme view to expect all doctors dealing with British patients whether they practice in person or online to adhere to uk regulations and standards of ethical practice.

Especially when some of those patients are children who have a higher threshold of consent.

"there's a lot of polarisation and demonisation"

what i meant to continue with, is that i'm up for genuine discussion if others are about these issues. personally i'm a feminist and i see no contradiction in campaigning on all issues that effect marginalised genders. they don't all effect me, but that doesn't stop me feeling solidarity, compassion and often anger. i've never needed an abortion but i will fight like hell for access for those that do. i am not living with an abusive partner, but i will fight for services for those that need them. i'm white, but that doesn't stop me joining BLM protests and challenging white supremacy. when we stand together against patriarchal oppression we are fucking strong.

comparing GGP to a backroom abortion provider? what you even talking about? i got compassionate, professional care from them.

as for "within the regulations", there are evidence based guidelines eg www.wpath.org/publications/soc and ggp as far as i can tell operate according to those. being trans means my healthcare is heavily politicised. to go back to the abortion analogy, a texan abortion facility will struggle to operate within their legal regulations, as they are patently ridiculous. that doesn't mean that an abortion provider in california is some backroom hellhole!

thanks for those that have offered empathy. i'm obvs not going to be able to keep up with this thread but i will keep coming back on every day or so.

there's a lot of polarisation and demonisation. personally i just want to live my life and if what you believe doesn't effect me, i don't mind what you think about trans identities. but when i see people opposing opening up more GICs that hurts. that's a direct assault on my ability to access what i need to live a healthy, full life.

Interesting they have done some investigating, wonder what prompted it?

Discovered some anti neo-liberalist / ultra-capitalist / anti-private sector bollocks?

Oo the Mirror? The left wing mirror? Has the mirror covered much on the subject to date?

GenderGP seem to think the article in the Mirror is now going to be published this weekend:

twitter.com/gendergp/status/1314531808814534656?s=21

“ We understand the Mirror are planning on running a story about GenderGP this weekend, after one of their staff contacted us pretending to be a mother of a trans child. Please read our statement about this here,”
www.gendergp.com/gendergp-proud-to-support-trans-community-response-to-journalist/

If the article resembles anything like their response, hopefully even more people will understand why they should not be prescribing to children/adolescents.

Oh, and they are also currently promoting taping as an alternative to binding.

twitter.com/gendergp/status/1314566292083531778?s=21

“ Want an alternative to wearing a binder? Read our blog to discover how you can use tape instead. #TransLives”

www.gendergp.com/chest-binding-a-trans-mans-insights-on-how-to-use-tape-as-an-alternative/

I agree the NHS is failing by not providing an adequate CAHMs service.

I also think that women, as a rule, are used to not being listened to and not being taken seriously over their health problems and that this is a facet of a womans lived experience and shapes our expectations.

If they can't even follow their own regulations, what else could be expected but for desperate people AND parents to seek alternate means.

And why is GD desperation so bad that people turn to internet prescriptions? How does the community work to dispel that desperation? Particularly with constant focus on ‘need to transition, the earlier the better’ without actually advocating to treat any mental health issues first.

There is huge need to improve waiting times (and on ALL NHS services), there is also need for the community to listen to the voices within that are stating there are issues with children transitioning and that the current charities seem to be not listening to anything dissenting trans voices are saying.

How come the GMC hasn't just struck her off on account of being a danger and acting beyond her scope of practice?

Unfortunately the GMC aren't the World Police of Medicine. Striking her off would only prevent her working in the U.K. as a doctor. All other countries have their own medical regulator and while the GMC can tell them what's happened they can't prevent another country allowing them to practise. So she could feasibly move to another country, register there and carry on as she was.

however I would also point out that, given how distressing Gender dysphoria is, that more research should be done in regards to this so that help can be given

Not sure why you think anyone would disagree with you. Part of the issue is the shutting down of research or data collection. The complete lack of follow up too.. to be able to deny and minimize detransition.

As pp have also stated. The affirmation only model contributes to high demand.

Unfortunately, waiting lists for every health issue are depressingly long. Its bad, really bad. But the answer is not suspended GPs attempting to keep their gravy train going by finding loopholes to keep doling out drugs with little/no actual assessment of needs.

I suspect the reason for that is that people trained in critical thinking look at the way GICs operate and opt to work elsewhere.

Look at the way the Tavistock has lost staff over the last few years as people decided they couldn't square their conscience with the "affirmation only" model and the various corners being cut.