Times: Chemist sells hormones for kids online

A small study reported a high risk of endometrial hyperplasia in transmen at 15%; however, this risk is probably overstated as the findings of this study have not been repeated and the histological studies on the endometria of hysterectomy specimens taken from transmen consistently demonstrate endometrial atrophy. Monitoring of the endometrial thickness by ultrasound scanning biannually is currently recommended. It is usual practice to recommend hysterectomy after two years of testosterone therapy

'Probably overstated, but we can't be sure cos we've not really studied this either. Cos hmm... why is it again we make guesses and assumptions about the health of female organs??

Also by 'correct treatment for some kids' I mean, they would actually grow up to be transsexual. And transition might then be the best option. So potentially it may have been 'a good thing' if they started younger, but is the risk worth it for less of an adams apple, really? When the vast majority of kids seem to 'grow out of' 'gender confusion' and seem to mainly turn out to be simp,y gay adults, rather than transsexual.

Keeping in mind that most children transitioning are female:

There is an increase in ovarian stromal tissue and cyst formation identical to the changes seen in polycystic ovarian syndrome. These changes occur after six months of therapy; their significance is unclear.

So not studied.

Testosterone induces the production of erythropoietin and so increases the production of red blood cells. Testosterone replacement therapy can be associated with polycythaemia and this increase in blood viscosity can lead to an increased incidence of stroke in those who have a haematocrit above 48%. This can occur even in young subjects; both stroke and myocardial infarction have been reported in anabolic steroid abusers.

The development of polycythaemia is more common with injectable forms of testosterone suggesting that the length of time that the testosterone concentration is supraphysiological is important in this effect. There are no reports on the incidence of polycythaemia in transmen receiving testosterone treatment in the current literature.

We've not studied this either.

Liver dysfunction and even fulminant hepatic failure have been reported as side-effects of testosterone therapy. This was, however, seen when alkylated anabolic steroid was used especially in the context of drugs of abuse by body builders and athletes. A very high incidence of liver dysfunction at 32% was reported when these compounds were used in transmen. Current treatment protocols do not use these anabolic steroids for testosterone replacement therapy.

There has been one series reporting the incidence of hepatic dysfunction in transmen treated with modern testosterone replacement therapy that reported the incidence of transient liver dysfunction (6 months) in 6.8%.28 It is commented in that report that no subject had liver enzyme dysfunction of more than 2.5 times the upper limit of normal; we can infer from that finding, that the disturbance was not great enough to merit cessation of therapy. Routine monitoring of the liver function in patients on testosterone replacement is recommended

6.8% risk. And 'infer'? infer??! as in we've guessed and not really studied properly infer?

Testosterone if used in excess, such as steroid abuse in athletes, increases insulin resistance; it had therefore been assumed that the high doses used in the masculinization of transmen would lead to an increase in insulin resistance. This does not appear to happen; in the only published study on this topic, insulin resistance did not change following one year of testosterone treatment

'This does not appear to happen; in the only published study on this topic, insulin resistance did not change following one year of testosterone treatment'. Erm what kind of science is this where we say this does not happen on the basis of a single year long study.

I was going to look through the whole report and comment, but I think I'll rest my case on this 'study' being not worth the paper its written on.

Thanks.

In fact, there's a good chance that going Male to Female might even increase life expectancy in the same way as CIS. but that really is speculation and obviously only applied on an average scale.

Is this actually correct? Would genuinely love to read a bit about that, if you have links to hand (dont expect you t find them if it was just an off cuff remark or something though!). I can believe it I think, even without proof, not sure why though but it sounds plausible. I do know for FtM its unlikely to be such a 'happy story' healthwise though. The damage done to the female body by extra testosterone is not good from what I have seen. But MtF, can definitely believe it might nt be as harsh and might possibly be 'better' in some ways.

Still, even though that interests me, my concern is and always will be for kids being set on this pathway for seemingly little reason bar how they will look when older if they do turn out to be trans. And IMO, being potentially more masculine/feminine looking as an adult IF it is the right thing for you to transition, is not worth playing russian roulette with health. It will of course turn out to be the correct 'treatment' for some kids, I suspect a minority. But, how much collateral damage is acceptable really, when it is basically health V appearance?

Okay, now i've stepped too far into trying to convince you now sorry. Like I said multiple times, I only wanted to describe a little of why some people use a service such as this. I wasn't trying to tell you they were right and that the worried parents on here were wrong. Though I have enjoyed some of the interesting challenges that have been put to me. Got a little wrapped up in it and now quoting research I'm not qualified to dissect. Probably made it worse . Have a nice night and a happy healthy life for all and your children.

Hormones are natural

I see this so often in a context that natural = good
Cyanide is natural
Deathcap mushrooms are natural
Uranium and asbestos are natural
Death is natural

However, Cross sex hormones are not natural.

Was hoping to vent a little and ended up trying to help add some information as to why some are using the service for their children.

Interesting wording.

Implies parents are doing it to children and children are passive and doing what they are told rather than free to make more informed choices where safeguarding checks they are not being pressured nor abused.

Study on Bone mass not density. My bad.: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6469959/

aaand this study talks about long term treatment near the bottom. This isn't the one I was thinking of but I did this research for myself some time ago and can't find it at this very minute. But yeah, biggest problem is suicide rates. Aint an easy route to take with the abuse you might get but there it is.
journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0004563215587763

Its funny how adult transitioners who didn't go on puberty blockers and went through puberty and have no experience of puberty blockers and their side affects advocate and want children they know nothing about and don't know to be put on puberty blockers.

Is that about the wishes and desires of the adults?

Or about the health and welfare of the child?

We can see it being dressed as the latter, but in seeing the risks being twisted, lied about and dismissed and there being a complete lack of evidence about the benefit to children, we see this advocacy for what its about.

The adult transitioner and what they wish they could have done - not the real version though - the fantasy version.

, from the studies (granted not read them all and not too many overall), but from what I've read there is no evidence that lifespan is shortened. Hormones are natural part of life at the end of day even if they go against your birth sex. Even less complications earlier in life. In fact, there's a good chance that going Male to Female might even increase life expectancy in the same way as CIS. but that really is speculation and obviously only applied on an average scale

Perhaps look up the risks for taking testosterone for females.

the NHS even. My keyboard hates me recently it seems

Delaying access to treatment causes irreversible physical damage

That was in response to RedToothBrush and what GenderGP posted.

I agree and disagree. In the end it comes down, at least from experience of myself and those I know, to whether or not you're passable.

This is a part that concerns me though in all honesty. Yes, 'treatment' when younger is all about passing when older. Or thats the way trans adlts seem to put it?

But, this is basically aesthetics V medical issues. Huge medical issues if the person does turn out not to be trans as an adult. Unfortunately, we have no clue how many young transitioners this applies to as its seemingly not allowed to find out, for some reason where really, anything more we can learn about making sure the treatment is right for everyone is a good thing. But no, detransition is something that must always be made out to be a golddust situation, whilst blocking any actual research into it.

I don't see issues as such in adults chosing what to do with their bodies. But the way I have seen this pushed on kids on the liked of AskTransgender and such chills me to the bone sometimes. Its not uncommon for a poster to be questioning gender stuff, and have a swarm of people coming on to 'just inform them' that meds when younger are the best way to go, else it will be harder to pass, and also that others like them often sontemplate or try to cmmit suicide if not medicated, and on and on and on. Coaching for what to say for referals, and things like that is concerning also, as if the person really was trans, why would they need coaching in exactly what to say and how to behave in order to get on the medical pathway, surely giving honest answers would be the same result, assuming transition was the correct path for them.

Don't get me wrong, medical ethics not being followed with adults is a problem also. But moreso when kids are invlved, and this whole puberty blocker thing just strikes me as a huge medical scandal waiting to happen tbh, and one of the main problems I see is the likes of the HS peddling for ages and ages that they were totally harmless and fully reversible, when all evidence seems to say the total opposite to this. NHS no longer lies about this, but they did for ages.

I don't know if it's right or wrong, only that I know most going through transition regret not doing it sooner and are probably projecting onto children who are in a similar position.

Yes. The reasons for this projection needs to be honestly discussed and the damage that it is causing should be too.

And the best methods in treating the distress in the current children should be indentified, after gaining a thorough understanding of any differences in why they are suffering distress. And individualized every single time.

Not even sure that last post ended in english... *Not much you can do about these features once they have developed.

Puberty goes in the wrong direction and provides 'markers' that will follow you forever.

You have a choice of either no puberty or puberty. No puberty isn't 'going in the right direction'.

I'd like to read these studies saying all these things to expand my reading. Could you name them or link them please?

"in the end it comes down to whether or not you're passable". That was poorly worded and misguided as well. My apologies
. I'm tired and not used to arguing the issue. Just trying to get on with life and things got stressful last couple days. Was hoping to vent a little and ended up trying to help add some information as to why some are using the service for their children.
I don't know if it's right or wrong, only that I know most going through transition regret not doing it sooner and are probably projecting onto children who are in a similar position.

Delaying access to treatment causes irreversible physical damage

Ummmm! How does delaying medication cause irreversible physical damage to a healthy body? This is an outrageous statement to make. In fact, the mental health aspect is problematic too if they are referring to only affirming treatment and not in-depth mental health treatment.

Statements like this should be what the activists are shouting down in the name of advocating for better health care.

Also with what @Winesalot was saying... I agree and disagree. In the end it comes down, at least from experience of myself and those I know, to whether or not you're passable. Which I would say comes down to being accepted as preferred gender / not harassed as trans. Puberty goes in the wrong direction and provides 'markers' that will follow you forever. Perhaps a mix of 'self-image' (which is currently a hot topic for adolescents anyway) and 'markers' that set you up for abuse.

Aaaaand, from the studies (granted not read them all and not too many overall), but from what I've read there is no evidence that lifespan is shortened. Hormones are natural part of life at the end of day even if they go against your birth sex. Even less complications earlier in life. In fact, there's a good chance that going Male to Female might even increase life expectancy in the same way as CIS. but that really is speculation and obviously only applied on an average scale. .

That should scare the hell out of everyone, if thats the level of their medical acumin.

Also this.
Treatment for trans young people saves lives – FACT. Delaying access to treatment causes irreversible physical damage and mental distress.

Is this a 'fact' or an opinion? What evidence is this based on?

How are you causing 'irreversible physical damage' if you are not medically intervening either with drugs or surgery? Remind me someone.

www.pharmacyregulation.org/news/concerns-relating-clearchemist

Very unsure where

We also expect pharmacy owners to make sure they do not work with online providers who are trying to circumvent the regulatory oversight put in place within the UK to ensure patient safety throughout the healthcare system.

fits with the statement about everything getting sorted out and don't worry people, our methods will be ongoing still as we have found another way to circumvent the usual processes!

AH this has been updated since I loaded it it seems..

Update from GGP 09.10.20 20.00 hours: At the end of what has been a week full of uncertainty for our service users, we are absolutely delighted to be able to deliver some good news. GenderGP has identified a number of pharmacy solutions which will provide additional support to all of our service users — of all ages — while Clear Chemist hones the process by which it will operate moving forward. We would like to thank the GenderGP community for its support and patience during these challenging few days.

Well seems another way around the system has been found. Yippee for procedure and healthcare eh.

I genuinely find this terrifying. The thought of where I could have ended up, had my consition been when I was younger and more naive and trusting, had I had managed to find some service online where I could buy pain meds, and had multiple people in my support network/'friendship group' convincing me that thats the best way to go as my GP is unlikely to ever help and everyone will stand in my way, any doctor who will not leap straight to meds is against me and people like me, and the only way I will ever be treated is to go backdoor in this way. I have a feeling I would be in a dark place right now.

Puberty is how people mature from childhood to become adults. It affects the whole body and the brain. This idea that some people are "really" trans is extremely dangerous.

Yes, some people really struggle to come to terms with their maturing physical bodies, that doesn't mean anyone else should "affirm" these ideas.

I find it awful that adults who have chosen extreme body modification are pushing children down the same route with no idea of the effects of these drugs long term.

I recall a study that showed the earlier someone transition, the more likely that even bone density/mass will be effected; resulting in...a let's say... more confidence building transition shape.

Are you suggesting abnormally low bone density is considered a good thing?