Page 2 | Radical feminism and sperm donation

klinghoffer · 2020-10-02T13:19:42+00:00

Hello everyone! I've namechanged, but been on here a while. I'm not a mum, but I am a woman who feels I'm now ready for children. I've had awful experiences with men in relationships (not just romantic relationship, but family relations and friendships). I won't go into detail here, but it's really made me not want to have a relationship with another man again. I want to have a baby, and for the past 3 years I've been thinking sperm donation would be my best option. I'm also a radical feminist, but I'm wondering if this is the best way to go? I'd have to take a lot of time off of work, and financially I wouldn't be as stable as if I were to have a partner etc., but I would have support from my parents and my sister. Are there any radical feminists who could give me some pointers as to whether they think I'm doing right by myself and my future child by not having a man involved? Thanks in advance!

Mariola321 · 04/10/2020 02:27

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Italiangreyhound · 04/10/2020 01:30

OP my husband and I had treatment with donor eggs (all unsuccessful). But we do have a birth daughter and adopted son.

When I was looking into donor eggs I heard about the Donor Conception Network.

I;d really recommend looking into this if you decide to do this.

www.dcnetwork.org/

Original poster

klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 23:27

@Mollyollydolly

Just regarding finances, my friend who has gone down this route via Spanish clinics, by the time she had a successful pregnancy she'd spent in the region of £50K .. and a lot of sleepless nights and angst. In the end she was successful, but it's not an easy option.

Thank you! I have spoken with a few agencies, and plan to do it at home. I understand I may have to pay a few times as it may not work first time around, and have budgeted for it. I'm still saving up too just in case of an emergency!

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Mollyollydolly · 03/10/2020 23:01

Just regarding finances, my friend who has gone down this route via Spanish clinics, by the time she had a successful pregnancy she'd spent in the region of £50K .. and a lot of sleepless nights and angst. In the end she was successful, but it's not an easy option.

Original poster

klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 22:52

@DidoLamenting

And to have a child, you will have show you don’t hate men (maybe their action) because that child may be a male himself

The OP seems to think men are only useful for providing sperm. I'm not sure how she would explain that if she has a son.

I don't know if they're even good enough for that. I hope there's a chance in the next 5 years for scientists to figure out this bone marrow situation so women can reproduce with other women sooner rather than later 😊

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Original poster

klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 22:50

@Goosefoot a sperm donor is a sperm donor, they are biologically the child's father but they wouldn't legally be their father or have any involvement in the child's life. Therefore they aren't the child's father.

Someone mentioned if I could use a known donor, but the idea doesn't sit right with me. I'd prefer to go through an agency. If my future child would like to know if they have siblings and perhaps even meet their biological father, then that would be okay with me. However it would be up to the donor if he would want the children to make contact. Lots do but lots don't.

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Original poster

klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 22:48

@KormaKormaChameleon

I can only base this on my own experience and the experiences of those I know who grew up without fathers. None have felt they missed out on not having a father

Ok well now I think you're only taking on board what you want to hear. For every person who feels they didn't miss out there will likely be another who felt they did. It doesn't discount anyone's experience to admit that - that's just honesty. You can't say you are trying to consider from all angles without acknowledging that or by basing it on one type of experience. You at least need to know how you'd approach it if your child grew up feeling differently from you.

I read your posts and understand why this is the option you're considering. I haven't once said I think children need fathers or women need men to be happy or anything like that, but I have said you seem to be assuming growing up without one has absolutely no impact and is neither here nor there. I think that's a poor starting point to be making the decision from. I feel it would be more mature and informed if you acknowledged the potential downsides (further than finance/security), especially for the child and why you feel these aren't a barrier and how you could overcome them. That just seems so much more realistic to me than going in saying it will make no difference at all and that people who grow up conceived in this way/without a second parent are never affected.

I am exploring all avenues, that's why I've made the post. I want to hear all these opinions, and I want to make sure I'm doing the correct thing for the child but also for myself. I acknowledged right from the beginning of this thread that I want to make sure my child doesn't miss out on anything. I know people who have grown up without knowing their father and without having male influence who've said they didn't miss out. I also know people who grew up without a dad and felt they got the things they missed from other male influences. My child would have a grandfather who would be very involved in their life, and also uncles too. I'm lucky enough to have a great support system, without which this option wouldn't be possible for me I think.

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KormaKormaChameleon · 03/10/2020 22:40

I can only base this on my own experience and the experiences of those I know who grew up without fathers. None have felt they missed out on not having a father

Ok well now I think you're only taking on board what you want to hear. For every person who feels they didn't miss out there will likely be another who felt they did. It doesn't discount anyone's experience to admit that - that's just honesty. You can't say you are trying to consider from all angles without acknowledging that or by basing it on one type of experience. You at least need to know how you'd approach it if your child grew up feeling differently from you.

I read your posts and understand why this is the option you're considering. I haven't once said I think children need fathers or women need men to be happy or anything like that, but I have said you seem to be assuming growing up without one has absolutely no impact and is neither here nor there. I think that's a poor starting point to be making the decision from. I feel it would be more mature and informed if you acknowledged the potential downsides (further than finance/security), especially for the child and why you feel these aren't a barrier and how you could overcome them. That just seems so much more realistic to me than going in saying it will make no difference at all and that people who grow up conceived in this way/without a second parent are never affected.

DidoLamenting · 03/10/2020 22:33

And to have a child, you will have show you don’t hate men (maybe their action) because that child may be a male himself

The OP seems to think men are only useful for providing sperm. I'm not sure how she would explain that if she has a son.

Goosefoot · 03/10/2020 22:22

@klinghoffer

Also my child would not have a father, so how can my child miss something they never had? A sperm donor is not a father. Hope this makes sense, again English isn't my first language 😅

Ah, no, actually a sperm donor is a father, that is how human biology works, and that is an issue that radical feminism has an opinion on - the body is real and significant part of who we are. What you will have is a child with an absent father.

The child would have a father, conceivably they could discover siblings or grandparents one day if they do one of those ancestry tests, and they will know they have a father who does not care to know them, and that you didn't care for them to know him.

FourPlasticRings · 03/10/2020 21:46

@klinghoffer

Also my child would not have a father, so how can my child miss something they never had? A sperm donor is not a father. Hope this makes sense, again English isn't my first language 😅

Through comparison with popular culture and peers. So, they watch films which focus on the dad-child dynamic and imagine what it might have been like if they'd had a dad. They can't join in with Father's Day. They compare their friends' families with their own. Particularly if your child is a boy- they might imagine their dad would do all the stereotypical dad things. He might feel you can't understand him properly because you're female. He might wish he had a dad to talk to during puberty, rather than having to go to Mum- who never went through it from a male perspective- or Uncle X.

That's not to say they will feel that way (and as I've said, many kids who are conceived via the usual methods still end up having to navigate childhood fatherless), but I don't think you can categorically say that there'll be no impact on your kid.

blueberrypie0112 · 03/10/2020 21:14

(Skipping some post because I do have other things to worry about) you do not need a father, your child just need to feel she/he is loved outside of his/her mother. Some family can provide that.

And to have a child, you will have show you don’t hate men (maybe their action) because that child may be a male himself.

Original poster

klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 21:09

Also my child would not have a father, so how can my child miss something they never had? A sperm donor is not a father. Hope this makes sense, again English isn't my first language 😅

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Original poster

klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 21:06

@Goosefoot

Also, besides what if the child were disabled, what if you were disabled, or God forbid, died? Do you have family who could help, not just financially but mental and physical support?

I do. This was the first thing I considered before deciding to go down this road. I am incredibly lucky in that regard, and recognise I'm lucky that I can make this decision when so many women cannot. That's - I suppose - why I am interested in a radical feminists point of view here. I want to make sure I consider everything and make the right decision.

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Original poster

klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 21:04

@KormaKormaChameleon

I don't feel my future child would miss out on anything by not having their father in their life, truthfully

This actually worries me a bit to read. I think it's one position to consider what a child will miss out on my not having a father in their lives but decide on balance this isn't vital/persuasive enough of an arguement to prevent you conceiving via sperm donor or that you can create circumstances that go a long way to ameliorate that.
But to dismiss that your child wouldn't miss out an anything shows a bit of a lack of understanding and naivety I think.

I think it's commendable to put so much thought in before having children - ideally most people would soul search and plan and consider the child's welfare as much. I don't agree it's great to hang the decision on 'what would a radical feminist do' though and like I said, it jarrs me a bit to read you think your child would miss nothing by not having a father.

I can only base this on my own experience and the experiences of those I know who grew up without fathers. None have felt they missed out on not having a father. I'm sure lots of people are very lucky to have great dads, and would miss out. I want a child, but have decided romantic relationships with men will not be something I embark on for my own mental and physical wellbeing. Therefore this is my option.

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FourPlasticRings · 03/10/2020 20:57

@KormaKormaChameleon

I don't feel my future child would miss out on anything by not having their father in their life, truthfully

This actually worries me a bit to read. I think it's one position to consider what a child will miss out on my not having a father in their lives but decide on balance this isn't vital/persuasive enough of an arguement to prevent you conceiving via sperm donor or that you can create circumstances that go a long way to ameliorate that.
But to dismiss that your child wouldn't miss out an anything shows a bit of a lack of understanding and naivety I think.

I think it's commendable to put so much thought in before having children - ideally most people would soul search and plan and consider the child's welfare as much. I don't agree it's great to hang the decision on 'what would a radical feminist do' though and like I said, it jarrs me a bit to read you think your child would miss nothing by not having a father.

I agree with this. In this day and age, with society's obsession with knowing one's roots, ancestry etc, it's likely that the child may feel it has missed out on that experience. Of course, plenty of kids conceived in a more traditional manner also miss out on knowing their dads for various reasons, and I'm not convinced that it's enough of a reason to scrap the whole plan, but one of your biological parents being absent is very likely to create a feeling of having missed out at some stage.

Goosefoot · 03/10/2020 20:45

Also, besides what if the child were disabled, what if you were disabled, or God forbid, died? Do you have family who could help, not just financially but mental and physical support?

Cascade220 · 03/10/2020 19:12

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KormaKormaChameleon · 03/10/2020 19:01

I don't feel my future child would miss out on anything by not having their father in their life, truthfully

This actually worries me a bit to read. I think it's one position to consider what a child will miss out on my not having a father in their lives but decide on balance this isn't vital/persuasive enough of an arguement to prevent you conceiving via sperm donor or that you can create circumstances that go a long way to ameliorate that.
But to dismiss that your child wouldn't miss out an anything shows a bit of a lack of understanding and naivety I think.

I think it's commendable to put so much thought in before having children - ideally most people would soul search and plan and consider the child's welfare as much. I don't agree it's great to hang the decision on 'what would a radical feminist do' though and like I said, it jarrs me a bit to read you think your child would miss nothing by not having a father.

Original poster

klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 16:37

@BovaryX

OP, Have you thought about the implications of your decision for the child? You are planning to have a baby with zero support from its father and you acknowledge that this will cause serious financial repercussions for you. I don't understand what 'radical feminism' has to do with your decision and to be honest, I think it is irrelevant. You should be considering the impact on the child, not on 'radical feminism.'

Financially we would be okay, but I do believe all families with two parents working are financially better off. I think my child wouldn't lost any other benefit from not having a father in their life. I'm not planning on doing this for a few more years, but I'm ready for it when the time comes. I want to make sure I have everything secured before I do. I don't feel my future child would miss out on anything by not having their father in their life, truthfully. Thanks for your response!

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klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 16:33

@TyroBurningDownTheCloset

I think from a radfem perspective you're good to go, if the finances are doable.

The bit I'd be putting a lot of thought into relates to the idea of community parenting discussed upthread. Have you got decent and caring people of both sexes around you, whose interactions with you your child will be able to learn from? With no father on the scene there's no risk of your child learning shitty m/f interpersonal relations from her or his parents, but equally there's not the possibility of them learning what healthy interactions look like. So I'd be looking at whether I was well-placed to mitigate the lack of relationship models there.

I do! I won't go into full detail here about my past experiences - I name changed for this reason, but I do have a better relationship with the men still in my life because of radical feminism. Thanks for your response!

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klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 16:29

@BitOfFun

Apart from anything else, I think it sounds like you need to accrue a lot more savings: as women, pension poverty and caring responsibilities impact hugely on us economically as it is, so going into the whole enterprise from a position of underfunding seems very unwise to me. You certainly shouldn't be viewing slipping out of the labour force permanently as a sensible or viable option for the future.

Financially I am doing well, and I am saving. I would not give up my job once I have a child. I am planning on doing this when I'm 32, and I have 5 more years of saving before then. I want to be financially secure before I do this, but then I do panic that without financial support from another parent I would be putting myself and my child in some risk. There's a lot to consider, and that's part of the reason I started this thread. Thanks for the response. Making a list of all other things I need to think about that I may have missed!

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klinghoffer · 03/10/2020 16:27

@Bunnymumy

I've always thought one if the key foundations of radical feminism is that woman cannot be truly free from oppression because of pregnancy and childbirth. But maybe that was firestones contribution.

I think going it alone is percectly a acceptable. But I dont see it as necessarily feminist. Societal, physical and financial constraints in a patriarchal society mean that women are always putting themselves at risk of constraint and oppression by having children.

This is important to remember, and is part of the reason I do still have doubts about doing this.

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BitOfFun · 03/10/2020 13:31

Apart from anything else, I think it sounds like you need to accrue a lot more savings: as women, pension poverty and caring responsibilities impact hugely on us economically as it is, so going into the whole enterprise from a position of underfunding seems very unwise to me. You certainly shouldn't be viewing slipping out of the labour force permanently as a sensible or viable option for the future.

Bunnymumy · 03/10/2020 13:25

I've always thought one if the key foundations of radical feminism is that woman cannot be truly free from oppression because of pregnancy and childbirth. But maybe that was firestones contribution.

I think going it alone is percectly a acceptable. But I dont see it as necessarily feminist. Societal, physical and financial constraints in a patriarchal society mean that women are always putting themselves at risk of constraint and oppression by having children.