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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

ffs, amanda craig novellist dropped from mslexia

266 replies

Helmetbymidnight · 29/09/2020 18:29

according to nick cohen on twitter, amanda craig novellist has been dropped as a judge from mslexia because she signed the jkr letter - a womens writing magazine! - absolutely shocking. and frightening.

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WokeEwok · 02/10/2020 10:48

Oh and one of the signatories is the grimly-named Cheryl Hole, which says everything about what he really thinks about women

ArabellaScott · 02/10/2020 10:32

im seeing fellow writers saying 'no one deserves abuse- but' or 'rape threats are wrong- however' - its unbelievable to me that women, thinkers, writers, feminists! are coming out with such stuff.

This. I can't believe these phrases are coming out of people's actual mouths. It really terrifies me, actually, because it shows an erosion of very basic standards of what is and isn't acceptable. If you allow that in some cases and situations, abuse, rape and death threats are understandable, it's a short and slippery slope to the things themselves being understandable, and our very simple morality is under threat.

Women shouldn't be abused or receive rape or death threats. That's it. Full statement.

But the people arguing against that are tagging on conditionals. Conditions undermine the first assertion. It becomes: Women shouldn't be abused or threatened unless

They have a view you find abhorrent.
You disagree with their politics
They say something you find bigotry.

These people should ask themselves in what circumstances is it understandable, forgivable, okay really, for women to receive threats and abuse?

These people ought to be not only ashamed, but worried. This is corrosive to our social fabric, and it's fucking dangerous. Consider the state of rape - 'virtually legalised' and the increase in domestic violence. How are women's rights looking these days? All shiny? Lots of fun? We have the right to sell our bodies in Leeds, but not the right to stand up and give a speech. But perhaps you think its understandable that women are arrested if you don't agree with what they say. It's just some t*, right? Understandable that people make baseball bats for these stupid Karens, amirite?

Oh, sorry, I could go on forever. I'm so tired of it. It's so unbelievable that we're at this point in time and so many women still seem somehow unaware of these very real, very tragic and very worrying truths. Or that they are desperately clinging to the 'right side of history'. History doesn't have a bloody right side, you idiots. HIstory is a big fucking messy splat, it's tricky, difficult, debatable, and it's changing all the time. There is no promised land, there are no gendered souls, and women need to wake up and fight for their rights, because there are plenty out there more than happy to take them off us.

LadySeaThing · 02/10/2020 10:24

I know, the "right to exist" bollocks fucks me right off. Straw man extraordinaire. No one is threatening your right to exist and you know it. How about you exist, but stop demanding everyone else and the law shares your view of yourself to the detriment of their actual real rights? THAT's what people object to.

It's like if the Christian church told everyone they have to be a Christian, and then when some people said no, crying "waaaah you're denying us our right to exist!" Such shite.

Collidascope · 02/10/2020 10:15

"I've seen a lot of talk about how it was a letter opposing bullying, but where was the support for the trans community Rowling put in harm's way with her views? ... And when you look at the people who signed –Graham Linehan, Lionel Shriver–it's clear there is alignment with transphobia."

"The debate has become a binary of 'supporting' Amanda, or 'supporting' me andMslexia. Really, it's about trans people's right to exist and have their existence enshrined in law."

This is sheer fucking idiocy. Talk of Rowling putting trans ppl in harm's way (ffs) and the idea that if Graham Linehan or Lionel Shriver signed it, it must be transphobic. I fucking despair. And then the constant "but what about trans people??" and "this is about trans people having the right to exist!"
The letter was objecting to rape and death threats against a woman. Not everything has to be about trans people. And calling them a "persecuted minority." Jesus Christ. The cult of victimhood.

Helmetbymidnight · 02/10/2020 10:10

this whole thing is so nauseating.

im seeing fellow writers saying 'no one deserves abuse- but' or 'rape threats are wrong- however' - its unbelievable to me that women, thinkers, writers, feminists! are coming out with such stuff.

as for the young uns in the publishing industry- it does feel as though all the women have now got she/her in their bios. so unimpressive.

im seeing loads of people posting opinion pieces 'why jkr is transphobic' too.

i just dont see how anyone can defend the actions of mslexia here. :( as for kira being 'uncomfortable' because another judge signed an anti-bullying letter - its shameful.

OP posts:
Annasgirl · 02/10/2020 10:01

I think we should all make lists of those who support JKR and all of us GC critical women, and we could support them by buying their books. I think the sales for JK's latest novel shows that the public are not boycotting her and book publishers are businesses, clue is in the name, so money talks.

One way in which we can lead this debate is by voting with our wallets.

SerenityNowwwww · 02/10/2020 09:48

It’s very must being set as shorthand as an either / or debate now.

Malahaha · 02/10/2020 09:46

ooh! The Bookseller reports on this, the industry's main media outlet.
I've seen it posted in an author group and writers who had no idea of the brouahaha are horrified. I'm going to post the petition there in a while...

www.thebookseller.com/news/mslexia-asks-amanda-craig-step-down-judge-over-concern-rowling-letter-threatens-climate?utm_source=Adestra&fbclid=IwAR3xn2elm04Q7FPSphusnwFUa7Yb1PqtQK3_iaUfo1QgpqkqxgBAE18vHVg

The article portrays both sides, but unfortunately does give the "we support trans and non-binary" set the last word.

RoyalCorgi · 02/10/2020 09:31

Some good news - Jane Clare Jones is launching a new feminist magazine. Online only, I think:

theradicalnotion.org/

LadySeaThing · 02/10/2020 09:18

I also question people's critical thinking skills. It makes me feel very old and I wonder if young people (or some of their subcultures) have always appeared so devoid of rational thought to older, more experienced people, or if this generation/zeitgeist is somehow different, because of the internet and the "post-truth" era.

I mean how can you possibly think JKR's agenda is to attack trans people on the basis of bigotry? How can anyone, when told that, not think "hmm that can't be right, famously philanthropic, left-leaning modern writer suddenly hates people for being trans and risks her reputation to bleat bigotry on the internet? I wonder what she really said and why - I'll have a look."

I mean of course some do, and that is why JKR used her position to raise the important issue of sex-based rights being at risk. But so many just seem happy to have a hate figure to use as extra fuel for their virtue-signalling/claims to victimhood, without any evidence. Including loads of clever, educated, apparently "nice" people in children's publishing - in fact especially them. It's so bonkers.

SerenityNowwwww · 02/10/2020 08:37

The golden rule arrived yesterday. It a big book! I’m looking forward to the weekend when I can sit and read it - but troubled blood is also sitting in my read pile.

Decisions, decisions...

LunaNorth · 02/10/2020 08:31

I’ve just ordered The Lie Of The Land. Looking forward to it.

SophocIestheFox · 02/10/2020 08:08

Just bought The Lie Of The Land, Amanda Craig had fallen off my radar a bit of late, but I really enjoyed A Private Place, so am happy to bump her book sales a bit today.

There’s some classic overreach that I’m really enjoying. “identifying as” isn’t good enough any more, and the cat’s out of the bag on dismantling women as a sex class, so there’s lots of food for thought being served up to a new audience on this topic.

SerenityNowwwww · 02/10/2020 07:51

200 people have written a spite letter against another letter denouncing threats and violence. Oh yes, that’s a good look.

ArabellaScott · 02/10/2020 07:50

'Interpreted as' doesn't mean you can just make stuff up. What bilge. These people have no critical thinking ability at all. They're living in a fantasy.

Collidascope · 02/10/2020 07:31

Such an arse-covering tweet.
"Interpreted as defending JK's controversial views."

Basically, a load of people who'd deliberately ascribed views to JKR that she never professed then decided to ascribe a load more unprofessed views to people who felt that it wasn't quite cricket to threaten a woman with rape, mutilation and death. And they're meant to be a writing magazine. I'm just trying to imagine how my English Lit A level would have gone if I'd decided to misinterpret the texts to such an extent and not even bothered to explain my arguements.

ffs, amanda craig novellist dropped from mslexia
ArabellaScott · 01/10/2020 22:02

Which is, I've just discovered, digitised by the British Library.

www.bl.uk/spare-rib

ArabellaScott · 01/10/2020 22:00

Someone should resurrect Spare Rib.

EvenSupposing · 01/10/2020 21:38

Goosefoot Grin

ScrapThatThen · 01/10/2020 21:37

Her book looks gorgeous and sounds intriguing I have added it to my Christmas list

LunaNorth · 01/10/2020 21:26

Annoyingly, Mslexia is one of only three publications that I’ve ever had anything published in.

It used to be the one I was proudest of.

So that’s that knackered.

LunaNorth · 01/10/2020 21:24

I was only thinking yesterday about re-subscribing to Mslexia.

They can fuck off.

Kit19 · 01/10/2020 21:15

I hope when KMH looks back at this in a few years, she cringed herself inside out with embarrassment at her treatment of a fellow author who has done nothing but campaign against bullying & remain gracious to those who disagree with her

Time40 · 01/10/2020 21:14

I'm a bit gutted by this, as I had submitted a story to the short story competition that Craig was to judge

Ah @Random789, it's so sad. I too feel the loss of those Mslexia competitions. It's hard to know that the door to a possible showcase for one's work has closed.

Goosefoot · 01/10/2020 21:13

@EvenSupposing

I just feel like Attwood's nearly there in her writing. I think maybe it's her characters? They aren't real enough. And I sort of liked OANTOF but...nah, again, not quite.

Dr Leach has sort of let the cat out of the bag with that tweet hasn't they? Like, isn't that the evil end game we all knew they had in mind but they kept laughing through their beards and clutch bags and saying 'That'll never happen!' And now Hannah has tweeted it. Possibly by accident while trying to type the thorn phoneme. Oops...

I find Atwood's characters empty. Like they have no soul. In a short story it's not too bad, but when it's a whole novel I find myself wishing they'd just get hit by a car. Or that I would.
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