Do “trans kids” exist?

I mean lesbians are attracted to other women, obviously.

Yes, but I'm talking about before a female understands herself to be a lesbian.

As an aside, I wish we could leave the feminine-presenting males out of this. They just cloud the issue. They're not lesbians and they need to piss off with their claims about girldick.

What I was more getting at is: if you can't reconcile with being female, you can understand yourself as female-attracted but can't so easily understand yourself as a same-sex attracted female; and if you don't want to have sex using your own female genitals then you can't understand yourself as being the sort of person who wants same-genitals sex.

This ties in with the autoandrophilia of females who identify as gay men. Attracted to males, don't want there to be a female body involved, because the female body is the site of trauma.

The moral of this tale is: CSA can make it very difficult to figure out where you fit in, because the 'rules' weren't developed with these psychological fuckups in mind.

I hope Spuddddd can find some great Gender Non Confirming role models for her teen.
The video posted here recently of the Tavistock worker explaining the GIDS model (to the Irish equivalent of CAMHS?) gave an example where a small boy was being teased for playing with dolls, and good steps were 1) find a good man 2) get him to play with the dolls with the child. That’s it.
Good steps were not “pretending that the child could change sex“, “changing schools and pretending to be a girl at the new school”, or “giving radical medication”.

There used to be places where you could find those GNC role models, but it is getting harder?

One major problem is: How do you work out your sexuality when you don't want to have sex with your own genitals because doing so is triggering?

I know no one is thinking about that with children as they are children but eventually they will grow up and yes I think the relationship aspects are very troubling.

I mean lesbians are attracted to other women obviously. And naturally that rules out feminine presenting males. And im not sure who would want to be in a relationship with someone who hates the idea of male or female so much they tried to get out of being one. How would you deal with something like that as the other person in the relationship.

And the same with gay men. Would they want a relationship ship with someone who tries to look like a woman. Its a different level to just an effeminate man surely.

Doesn't this leave the dating pool somewhat sparse?

I do worry what kind of partner these kids will eventually end up with. Especially if they end up medicated and their sexual function as adults is affected. Its just not bound to be a healthy relationship surely?

When my young daughters compete or fight one will shout "GIRLS " and the other will shout "BOYS "!! (We don't encourage this btw) even if her favourite colour is blue I don't think at this age they even understand what they're talking about.
I would ignore any "signs" until at least 7/8 years old.

I've a lot more to say about the dissociation aspect but I'm not sure the general FWR consensus is quite ready for some of it.

Suffice to say, on a psychosexual level, it fucks you right over.

One major problem is: How do you work out your sexuality when you don't want to have sex with your own genitals because doing so is triggering?

Crossed post not in reply to anyone but Op. I type slow

Guess I'd better take her off for beta blockers right now eh?!

A relative was desperate to be a boy. From year dot she wore boys clothes, hair, toys, had boy friends etc. I think she noticed boys were allowed to be louder, funnier, more confident, more direct, more active and she wanted that as much as anything.

If she could have taken a magic potion to change into a 6ft professional footballer she would have but that’s not what we are able to offer. The medical pathway is gruelling and the result would have been a relatively short normal bloke with slightly feminine features that would probably pass if you didn’t look too close.

We definitely have intensely gender non conforming kids that are interested in changing or don’t understand LGB feelings. I’m worried we’re not giving them enough of a reality check currently. Surely part of this is growing up and accepting who you are and finding a way to work with it.

Takemeaway it sounds very hard to navigate, and fwiw I think you're right to be wary of the therapeutic options currently on offer.

There's a lot in your post about how you haven't pushed stereotypes and have actively fought against them, and this still hasn't worked - with respect, you are crediting yourself with too much influence here. Your child has not been raised in a vacuum. You're only one person, and he's getting the stereotype messaging from everywhere else. One person alone can't mitigate it all.

And you really can't know whether it will turn out to have been a sexuality thing or not - he's seven!

Can I ask who introduced your son to the concept of trans Takemeaway?

Takeme, you may not have consciously raised him with any stereotypes, but he didn't grow up in a bubble, there is a whole society around him, and he's only 7. Please, continue to accept him with all his personality quirks, always tell him the truth and be a good mum, which I'm sure you're doing already.

we are told to listen to transkids but only the ones who are still stuck in the middle of it.

I'm reminded of the way we're supposed to unquestioningly accept the happy narratives given by women in prostitution but the women who managed to escape are always deemed unrepresentative and thus ignorable.

All adults who've experienced dysphoria since childhood may have valuable insights, but only those adults who decided transition was the best way forward are deemed worthy of listening to.

My 7 year old identifies as Trans.

I'm going to share my own experience as it might help someone understand/provide advice to me.

My first child. Male. Raised with no gender stereotypes.
I remember he loved books, trains, and anything musical when he was 1. He would only play with girls at nursery and by 2 would always wear a princess dress at nursery.

What I saw was my little boy playing at nursery. He was happy. Age 3 he was still obsessed with princess dresses and only played with girls, but also still obsessed with trains. I saw nothing but my happy little boy. There were girls that played with trains just as he played with princess dresses. It was when he was 3 that he started to say "I wish I was a girl" a lot! I always told him that he was a boy and he was free to like whatever he wanted just as girls are, but it just got more and more intense.

I always said the same thing and was positive in my approach that boys have all different likes and dislikes and personality types, and that there are loads of boys just like him. I thought it was a bit of a phase, kids like and want all different things don't they, but no matter how much I have reassured him over the years it's never stopped. He's always wanted to play with the girls, insisted he wished he was a girl, wanted to wear pretty clothes and have long hair, wants to dance but also loves trains and dinosaurs and boats, history and lots of other things. I've always treated it the same by seeing him as a boy that likes these things but thinking he would settle in time. It just got more intense.
10 months ago he said to me "I want to be a girl mum" and I said "I know" and went to continue speaking. And he interrupted "No mum, I am a girl, I want you to call me xxxxx, I want to dress like a girl, it just feels like me, I don't feel like me, I want to feel like me. Please can you just listen to me". He asked Santa to make him a girl and asked his teachers to call him a girls name and to go to school in a girls uniform.

It's been very difficult for me to try and understand, I cannot pretend I do, I can only say it as it is. I appreciate there's many opinions on this and I don't sit on either side of the fence, I can't work our quite what it is. I'm treating him like my child and understanding he's got a way to go to figure this out, he's the same person he's always been. I need to access some kind of proper counselling for him as so far with Covid we have only had chats on the phone.

I'm worried about him going for counselling because people might ask him questions about changing his body medically and put ideas in his head that aren't there at the moment. He's happy identifying as trans and a girl. Once you go down that road it's one you can't just turn back from easily. I worry as a parent.

I know it's not a sexuality thing, it's something different. He's had little girlfriends he kisses in the playground (that's another story) and he writes love letters to one girl in particular. He's never shown any interest in boys and we've always been open about gay relationships being completely normal.

I just wanted to share my experience as I'm certainly not someone that's raised him with gender stereotypes or pushed him to identify as trans.

Gender related distress in kids (rooted in homophobia, sexism, misogyny, other complex issues) is obviously real and I wish there were better professional talking therapies available to help kids to navigate this. I wish CAMHS in general were better resourced for all kids with any kind of need.
That it isn’t is a national scandal.

However the concept of ‘trans kids’ is an adult projection and concept.

I am in my 60s, up to about the age of 12, I wanted to be a boy, as all the boys I knew seemed to have much more fun than me. Some of my girlfriends felt the same, and we created out own small football team, and challenged to boys, I used to wrestle with my brother, nobody thought anything of it, or said anything about it. Guess what? We all grew out of it.
I remember one friend whose breasts started to grow before anyone else's, she hated them, but as we all caught up it wasn't such a big deal, she was still not 100% happy, but that was because they were bigger than ours, and 'got in the way' some times.

None of this made us trans then, and I am certain it doesn't now, we pile so much shit on children's shoulders, and put our adult thoughts onto them, they are children, they don't think like adults, they don't like change, and they don't like being different; so if an adult gives them a 'reason' they are naïve and inexperienced, and trusting enough to accept it

From one POV yes, obviously there are trans* kids, because there are kids who will one day transition physically and socially to “live as the opposite sex” Full time in the way of a traditional transsexual person. However not all “trans kids” transition if left alone to explore their gender freely and not all people who transition as adults identified as trans prior to puberty.

There’s really 4 categories. TRAs would like hormones to be given to any kid who asks for them. This practice will miss many trans adults and harm many people who would otherwise not transition:

Trans kids who will transition as adults - a few
Non trans kids who will transition as adults - a few
“Trans” kids who will not transition as adults - more than above groups
Non trans kids who will not transition as adults - most people

What it comes down to is that Activists completely are willing to throw all of these kids health and wellness under the bus in order to help a few males pass better as adults (there’s no discernible reason to transition girls early as testosterone is a bit of a one-way street - most Adult transitioning trans men can pass once they’ve been on hormones for a couple years And had mastectomy).

*note I’m using trans here under the traditional terminology of someone who actually seeks to transition not the new “it’s a feeling” crowd.

Simple answer, no. Of course they can’t, fs. They might want to please parents by acting out stereotypes the parents force on them or read into what they play with wrong but that’s as far as it goes. For example, my kid was convinced she was a boy for wearing trousers to school (girls are only allowed skirts here) simply because other kids said she was because they had only seen boys wearing trousers. She was about the age people say their kids know they are the opposite sex, it just isn’t true. Kids minds are easily manipulated. Look at when a child says they are abused or that they aren’t but if an adult has an agenda they can ask leading questions and the kid will legit think they have been abused when not or vice versa, that alone is enough to show anyone that a kid cannot know if they are trans or not.

A diagnosis of gender dysphoria in childhood is rare

Yet despite its rarity, they started 267 children on puberty blockers in a 6 year period, or one kid every 8 days .

www.bbc.com/news/health-49036145

This. Floral. xx

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200502223745/www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200502223745/www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/

The page was changed on 28th May and now says:

A diagnosis of gender dysphoria in childhood is rare.

Most children who seem confused about their gender identity when young will not continue to feel the same way beyond puberty. Role playing is not unusual in young children.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/

I would have fit the criteria on the DSM as a child, for about 10 years, so far longer than the 6 months required. Thank fuck I was born in sensible times where my parents let me have my hair short, choose my own clothes and toys etc. I've always been very insular about my thoughts and very private so it wasn't something I really shouted about a lot.

I've been diagnosed with autism now, which explains my feelings about not fitting in and having a horrendous time at puberty, wondering what the hell was happening to my body, hating the change, wanting to get rid of my breasts etc.

Almost every trans kid I know has autism, which I find very worrying. The others have been through some kind of trauma. I hate this affirmation only approach.

One person told me I should not be focusing on detransitioners when trans people are still struggling for acceptance.

Translation: all your focus should be on championing a really fucked up patriarchy-approved coping method; you shouldn't explore alternatives that involve reconciling with the site of your trauma.

I was bloody lucky. I found the second-wavers before I was exposed to the idea that girls can be trans too. Every CSA survivor should have that chance.