Unisex Primary Toilets

We get trolled here a lot - A LOT - and I'm afraid that makes everyone cumulatively more and more fed up - so when one more person arrives to say it, they get it both barrels. But I should have presented it all calmly and in good faith, and I am sorry that I didn't.

This is especially the case, given I first came to Mumsnet determined to set everyone straight on how unreasonable they were being re. trans issues. Luckily, I went to check their claims, all confident I could disprove them with real data... only to find that I couldn't. So I didn't post. Otherwise, I'd have been in your shoes, only much, much more so! So really, this has been a wake up call to me, too. I should have been calm, polite, and provided you with links. Again, I'm sorry.

Welcome.

Thank you for actually looking at the evidence and understanding the issue.

Girls feeling uncomfortable and saying no really should be sufficient though.

I will also say the way you word your posts is awfully similar to lots of people who are just shit stirring on here so apologies if I was a little forthright in my reply!

I'm.not necessarily talking about you BTW rainbow

There are many posters and even organisations that seek to thibk that women should have to disclose their abuse in order to exercise their legal rights .

Abused not advised.

Stupid phone

As much as I'm.glad you have changed your mind rainbow

It does still remain that girls amd women saying NO failed to be enough

It should not be a case of having to prove girls sre actually raped at school in order to be worthy of single sex provision which is their legal right over the age of 8. Regardless of whether all the boys using them are angels or none of the girls using them have been advised or suffer from painful heavy periods.

No should be enough. Always. Akd our kids shouldn't be put in this position

Or, another perspective, someone has seen the thread title under feminism, have shown an interest, are willing to learn, this forum could be used to educate others and not belittle them.

I’m not too proud to say I had no idea the numbers were so high and that I’m
Genuinely shocked and have changed my opinion.

Oh and I missed:

"prove it"

It never happens
They are just uptight, after all they have mixed sex loos at home
If it DID happen, it could just as easily be a girl doing it
Their own fault if they insist on not using the loos and get a urinary infection
Their own fault that they are in discomfort for much of the school day because they are too shy to use mixed loos

So much blame, and these are our daughters people! We can do better.

Aaaa but then they will come back and say it doesn't happen becuase the toilets are supervised and behaviour is better whilst conveniently not registering why they would feel this extra supervision is necessary in kixed sex facilities, or where these extra staff suddenly came from and why they never appeared while the behaviour was apparently so bad in the single sex loos ..

So people ( not allowed to say which people) are coming on here telling women and girls that whatever we say, with good evidence, it doesn’t stand up to their opinions which are bullshit.

I wonder how many young girls are acceptable collateral damage...

Its in the link above

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34138287

600 in 3 years. Bearing in mind schools are open for 190 days a year it’s actually slightly more than one per day.

A girl is raped on school premises every single day of the school year.

Have you got a link to where you got that stat from?

If they put lots of private loos, all opening off central corridors, and all otherwise genuinely private separate rooms, that would actually be better for everyone. Single sex, communal loos are still key places for bullying, sadly.

98% of sex offending is by males. Comprehensives have thousands of kids, and by definition must take any and all. That means teenage girls are living cheek by jowl with hundreds of teenage boys, not all of whom will be benign. Of the UK population, 1 in 2500 males are in jail for a sex offence at any one time - not those with a conviction, but actually in jail. We have fewer than 1.5% of reported rapes even being charged, far less convicted, and we still have that level of imprisonment. It's an absolute guarantee that a comprehensive will be teaching boys who have committed, or will commit, serious sexual offences, and yet you profess astonishment that girls may want separate spaces to remove their clothing? When there are gaps above and below the cubicle? And that's even without the reality that many fundamentally harmless, just immature teenage boys find nothing more hilarious than mocking girls who have their periods, or their knickers round their ankles... and will also be showing off to their mates.

Disabled loos are individual and fully enclosed rooms. There is no comparison whatsoever. It's about as sane, honest and rational as those whining that our own bathrooms are unisex.

Did you even go to a mixed sex school? Was it a large comprehensive, if so? The potential for sexualised bullying is just enormous, in mixed sex loos. Which is why it's against the law not to provide single sex loos for kids over 8. I have no issue with mixed sex loos for under 8s, as it happens. Over that, and yes, it matters - and by secondary years, it matters enormously. Which is why it is the fucking law to begin with.

girls are more at physical risk holding in their wee all day than they are using a mixed toilet.

If they are doing that, then clearly they have a reason. One important enough for them to make that choice. Who do you think you are, dismissing their feelings and instincts like that and opining (alongside the clear lie that girls pose the same risk as boys) that they're just being silly?

Local authorities are allowing year group bubbles in secondary schools so seems strange that on one hand thats OK whilst sharing toilets which should be cleaned regularly anyway , with 15 from another class isnt.

Especially as many will be mixing with siblings or childminders anyway

Have you spoken to the teacher

Yes but to be fair there’s not much the school can do and teacher’s are having enough stress as it is. This is all part of the Covid Risk Assessment imposed on them by the local authority.

I feel for the schools trying to keep their bubbles intact. A hopeless task IMO but they've been told they need to do it.

I generally think that small children don't need separate toilets, for younger kids it's often better to have common toilets where the teacher can supervise. 8 seems about the right age to require separation to me.

But for a child who was upset by it and avoiding the toilet I would talk to the teacher or school and try and work out a solution - there may be a simple one available - maybe use a single toilet in a staff room or she could go with another little girl if that made her feel safer.

Same at my daughter’s school due to Covid bubbles. She’s 10. She no longer drinks any water all day to avoid going. It is a massive deal and no, she should’t just get on with it

Have you spoken to the teacher ?

I bet they haven't even set it up properly for girls either have they.

Exactly. Self enclosed single room cubicles are absolutely fine. As long as they open on to a main corridor.

Taking facilities away from disabled students and repurposing them is not ok.

Same at my daughter’s school due to Covid bubbles. She’s 10. She no longer drinks any water all day to avoid going. It is a massive deal and no, she should’t just get on with it.