EHRC Statement | Mumsnet

HecatesHat · 2020-09-28T17:13:35+00:00

For info, EHRC welcomes Dfe guidelines and highlights the harmful stereotypes line...

highame · 29/09/2020 15:47

The quietness implies that Stonewall has been given the heads up and told to keep schtum.

We wont know much until Ann Sinnott makes a statement.

Once her statement is made, I intend to write (handwritten not e-mail) to Dominic Cummings (yes I know, the devil incarnate) to point out that the impartiality of government organisations is under threat (I think he knows this)

I have been thinking about this for some time. If EHRC do not comply with Ann's directions, this means a long wait for the court case.

I for one do not intend just sitting it out. Will be putting up a post asking for input. God, I'm so fed up again, all this stupid obfuscation

ArabellaScott · 29/09/2020 15:28

I'm thinking: I don't like it, it's too quiet.

Beamur · 29/09/2020 14:51

That paragraph - are they referring to 'passing privilege'? Seems a bit off...

Manderleyagain · 29/09/2020 14:06

Ehrc's statement about the gra was definitely not a reverse ferret, or at all sympathetic to what gcf campaigners have been arguing. So this must be specific to this guidence, or things have changed in the last week.

These very short statements are odd.

Manderleyagain · 29/09/2020 14:04

They mean the sex they are transitioning to. I think the ' indistinguishable' etc reference might be taken from some of the scant case law. Possibly predating the gra? The court found that it would be detrimental to the transsexual person's right to privacy if she was ' outed' by being treated differently to other women, because she was indistinguishable from a natal woman (in the judge's opinion I guess).

Original poster

HecatesHat · 29/09/2020 13:25

@MindTheMinotaur

HecatesHat. Is it me that's struggling or the paragraph? Do they mean indistinguishable from the sex they are trying to transition from or to?

Now that I've read it again I think they might. It's so CONFUSING

OP posts:

Thelnebriati · 29/09/2020 12:44

Little boxes little boxes, and they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look the same.

BolloxtoGender · 29/09/2020 12:44

EHRC need to drop the non sense language, why play the game on their terms?

ChattyLion · 29/09/2020 12:41

Placemarking to read later

BolloxtoGender · 29/09/2020 12:39

Just bloody do away with all these new made up non sense words altogether, rather than trying to untangle and unpick the meaningless nonsense, which is exactly what the manipulation of language is meant to do. So many logical fallacies embedded in that language.

Original poster

HecatesHat · 29/09/2020 10:30

@averylongtimeago

You know how in those old westerns the sergeant turns to the lieutenant and says "I don't like it, it's too quiet!" And then he gets an arrow through his head and swarms of natives attack from all directions?

I'm thinking: I don't like it, it's too quiet.

Same

OP posts:

averylongtimeago · 29/09/2020 10:20

You know how in those old westerns the sergeant turns to the lieutenant and says "I don't like it, it's too quiet!" And then he gets an arrow through his head and swarms of natives attack from all directions?

I'm thinking: I don't like it, it's too quiet.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 29/09/2020 10:01

Actually Charles, I do understand what they mean. They mean that their fluidity means they can be what they want to be, when they want to be... and so can access any space they feel is appropriate, regardless of any law, implied social contract, current occupants thoughts and feelings.

Saying gender identity is different from gender expression is the same as saying my sex does not rely on whether or not I am wearing a skirt! Utter codswallop! Ideology masquerading as common sense.

Original poster

HecatesHat · 29/09/2020 09:57

@Whatsnewpussyhat

I'm finding it very unnerving that the TRA's have suddenly gone so quiet. They made so much noise and daft demands and know now the general public don't buy their nonsense or bullying.

I'm wondering what sort of strategising is going on at Stonewall.

OP posts:

Original poster

HecatesHat · 29/09/2020 09:56

@charlestonchaplin

I think many of you don’t realise that the core principle of transgender ideology hasn’t changed. They still think the state of being a man or a woman is dependent on how a person feels. That’s gender identity. They have always said that gender identity is different from gender expression, which is more about stereotypes. They’ve always said that gender expression is fluid, and not necessarily what you might expect from a person’s gender identity, which is why they have no problem with the likes of Alex Drummond in women’s spaces.

But then that's not what that passage is saying, it's saying the opposite. That if they look female they can have access.

OP posts:

CuriousaboutSamphire · 29/09/2020 09:35

It's unnerving in that the reverse ferret allows them to say what GC women have been saying for years, all wth an exclamation mark, cos it's obvious isn't it? What have you wimmins been shouting about?

The Mermaids statement, obfuscation, lie, twist, does exactly that! Of course we don't go into schools and tell teachers to accept without question! Why would anyone do that?

Annasgirl · 29/09/2020 09:34

@unwashedanddazed

LGBT families I think L or G families should be taught about. B families will be experienced as either straight or L/G (unless we stray into polygamy). I'm not sure what a T family is. Casually tagging T onto everything LGB causes endless complications.

This stood out for me too - I think we really have a huge issue to unpick the T from the LGB and get back to where the equality legislation intended us to be.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 29/09/2020 09:31

I'm finding it very unnerving that the TRA's have suddenly gone so quiet. They made so much noise and daft demands and know now the general public don't buy their nonsense or bullying.

SunsetBeetch · 29/09/2020 09:18

@HecatesHat

Among many questions, I do wonder about this paragraph in their guidance (highlighted on Ann Sinnott's Crowdjustice page) & wonder how they're planning to square this circle?:

“Service providers should be aware that where a transsexual person is visually and for all practical purposes indistinguishable from a non-transsexual person of that gender, they should normally be treated according to their acquired gender, unless there are strong reasons to the contrary.”

Isn't that considered transphobic by TRAs?

Kit19 · 29/09/2020 08:42

no I get that Charles

what we keep saying is you can feel how you want and present how you want but you cant rewrite or change laws and the social contract based on how someone may feel on any given day.

thats like saying on the days I feel sad I should get given free chocolate and on the days I feel happy I shouldnt. There's no way for any person to now how Im feeling inside and no way objectively to prove it.

charlestonchaplin · 29/09/2020 08:36

I think many of you don’t realise that the core principle of transgender ideology hasn’t changed. They still think the state of being a man or a woman is dependent on how a person feels. That’s gender identity. They have always said that gender identity is different from gender expression, which is more about stereotypes. They’ve always said that gender expression is fluid, and not necessarily what you might expect from a person’s gender identity, which is why they have no problem with the likes of Alex Drummond in women’s spaces.

Original poster

HecatesHat · 29/09/2020 08:33

I mean stereotypical behaviour and clothing attributed to the female sex, so gendered stereotypes I guess, but not clear is it? MindTheMinotaur

OP posts:

Original poster

HecatesHat · 29/09/2020 08:30

@MindTheMinotaur

HecatesHat. Is it me that's struggling or the paragraph? Do they mean indistinguishable from the sex they are trying to transition from or to?

Yes they mean sex, or sex stereotypes

OP posts:

Original poster

HecatesHat · 29/09/2020 08:29

@BolloxtoGender

I would be happier if they omitted ‘Gender identity’, it means ‘Sexist stereotype’ if it means anything at all. They should have also said LGB and dropped the T.

Well this is it, if you reject sexist stereotypes, how do you tell a man from a woman EHRC?

OP posts:

EwwSprouts · 29/09/2020 08:28

It's a fluff statement about other organisations. I'm waiting to see what they actually do/say down the line.