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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Challenging gender stereotype books for children

28 replies

Mykidsthinkimclueless · 28/09/2020 13:45

My children have a very established view that boys are often boys on the outside, girls on the inside and vice versa. They see it akin to how you shouldn't judge people on appearances, it's what is on the inside that counts.

Before school taught about trans issues my eldest had a good grasp of challenging gender stereotypes. (We live in wokesville - no prizes for guessing where!)

My word doesn't count for much this subject. I wondered if there are any books or education materials that are really good on challenging stereotypes.

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Trivium4all · 18/10/2020 20:38

Astrid Lindgren's "Ronja the Robber's Daughter". Absolutely magical.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 18/10/2020 19:30

I've been re-reading the Swallows and Amazons series and have been very struck by how unsexist Arthur Ransome was, even by modern standards, never mind the standards of the 1930s and 1940s when he was writing. Lots of his female characters are what might now be called gender nonconforming. Fortunately at the time whether wearing shorts or skirts nobody seems to have questioned whether what they were doing was ladylike or seemly for girls (except the Great Aunt, who is quite obviously stuck in the past and WRONG).

Nancy Blackett is the undisputed leader of the Swallows and Amazons. She and John are firm friends and have great respect for each other's different skills and traits.

When the action moves to Norfolk, the twins Port and Starboard are brilliant sailors and equals to their friend and neighbour Tom Dudgeon. In Secret Water, Daisy is a Nancy equivalent.

Mrs Barrable, the Admiral, is a painter who used to be a schoolteacher. There are lots of strong adult women in the stories. Great-Aunt Maria is a dragon but we get some insight into why and she is beholden to no man.

Missee Lee - need I say more, to anyone who's read it!

Susan Walker - over and over again AR points out that the Swallows and Amazons would have been totally unable to do what they do without her hard work keeping them fed and safe. The adults trust her judgement implicitly. Everybody defers to Susan, even Nancy. No question of pooh poohing women's work as trivial.

Cooking - as and when necessary, male characters step up to the mark and cook for themselves and often for others too. They wash up , go shopping, tidy up. It's never written off as women's work or demeaning.

Dorothea Callum - arguably the pivotal character in The Big Six. Her powers of imagination and organising facts are key to the resolution of the travails of the Death and Glories.

Titty - I think the most interesting character of the whole lot. Incredibly well realised.

Mrs Blackett and Mrs Walker are far from being bland Mummy figures in the background. Mrs Dudgeon is a SAHM but has the confidence to disagree with her husband.

So I think you could do a lot worse than introduce your young readers to the Swallows and Amazons series.

Myspiritanimalisabird · 18/10/2020 19:03

The Lioness Rampant series by Tamora Pierce, starting with Alanna the first adventure. It’s about a girl who swaps places with her brother to train to be a knight. She pretends to be a boy, but its very clear she’s a girl. The books deal with periods and the onset of puberty in book 1, and sex and relationships in later books alongside all the sword fighting. I loved them as a child.

persistentwoman · 18/10/2020 18:25

OP - don't forget Transgender Trend. They're at the cutting edge of challenging this grooming of children and they do unpick much of the queer theory behind what has (until now) been allowed to be pushed in schools by adults.

Some of their blogs are excellent and (for parents) offer considerable support that you are not alone in challenging the anti safeguarding, anti woman rhetoric being pushed at our children.

CousinKrispy · 18/10/2020 18:18

Your kids might be a bit old for them, but Babette Cole is brilliant--Princess Smartypa nts, Prince Cinders, and the puberty book Hair in Funny Places.

ThinkOrBlue · 18/10/2020 12:54

I recently created a roundup of 25 feminist books for kids, many of which defy traditional stereotypes. Not sure if it’s okay to link here: thinkorblue.com/25-books-for-feminist-kids/

CranberriesChoccyAgain · 28/09/2020 19:03

For young children, The Paper Bag Princess by Robert Munsch is a good start.

Plot:"Princess Elizabeth plans to marry Prince Ronald, who she thinks is perfect. However, a dragon arrives who destroys her castle, kidnaps Ronald, and burns all her clothes, so she must look for something to wear. Her only option is a paper bag. Elizabeth follows the dragon and Ronald as she seeks to rescue her fiancé, challenges the dragon to burn forests with fire and to fly around the world. The dragon completes the tasks but after flying around the world a second time becomes tired and falls asleep. Elizabeth rescues Ronald, who is ungrateful and tells her to return when she looks more like a princess. Elizabeth calls Ronald out for his ungratefulness. She rejects him as worthless: "You look like a real prince, but you are a bum". She then goes dancing off into the sunset to live on her own."

Grin
Clymene · 28/09/2020 19:02

I hope so too mykids. I'm so sorry your children have been brainwashed at such a young age - we deserve better from state education

Mykidsthinkimclueless · 28/09/2020 18:03

And there's no harm in it unless it becomes medicalised and/or reinforces harmful gender stereotypes . Yes this. I can live with the teenage pronouns stuff but glad that teachers/adults in my children's lives will have to now change how things are presented. My son was quite vulnerable to the "wrong body" message (introduced in year 4) and it has taken a long time since that for him to start to feel comfortable with himself. I am relieved that schools will hopefully now have to put forward a more considered message rather than one based on regressive stereotypes.

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Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 28/09/2020 17:20

You could look at amightygirl.com/books for female protagonists- you can filter by age etc

Off the top of my head Cornelia Funk & Lari Don both write for that age

Clymene · 28/09/2020 17:17

There was a post here from a parent who said a huge number of the trans identifying girls in her daughter's school decided they weren't trans in lockdown.

There is so much peer pressure. I think children have such a need to join a tribe at that age - New Romantics and punks were the thing when I was at school. And there's no harm in it unless it becomes medicalised and/or reinforces harmful gender stereotypes

Clymene · 28/09/2020 17:13

Accidental Pirates is a good series . The real hero of the book is a girl and the captain of the ship is a woman. Girls and boys aren't constrained by their sex but by their skills.

SerenityNowwwww · 28/09/2020 16:54

@BovaryX

but now every single one of her friends are trans, and she asks every peer what their gender is and they all use him or he/her/them pronouns. Every parent I know who has challenged stereotypes with their children now has a trans identifying teen

That is insane. There is an interesting theory about reward systems; one of the core beliefs of the intersectionalists is Manichean; good versus evil and those categories are entirely based on identity. If that is what is being taught at school, it creates a motive to identify as trans.

Fast forward 10 years or so “but you were the grown ups - why didn’t you let this happen?”
Mykidsthinkimclueless · 28/09/2020 16:42

Really appreciating the book recommendations thank you.

user27378, yes I can see that coming as he hits teenage years. Parents don't stand a chance against peer pressure and the latest "thing". And I guess its the natural order for kids to find a way to disagree with the parents. Not easy if the parents are liberal lefties!!

@BovaryX not sure I'm completely getting your last post but you have me thinking and reading because it sounds interesting!

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BovaryX · 28/09/2020 14:55

but now every single one of her friends are trans, and she asks every peer what their gender is and they all use him or he/her/them pronouns. Every parent I know who has challenged stereotypes with their children now has a trans identifying teen

That is insane. There is an interesting theory about reward systems; one of the core beliefs of the intersectionalists is Manichean; good versus evil and those categories are entirely based on identity. If that is what is being taught at school, it creates a motive to identify as trans.

user27378 · 28/09/2020 14:50

Sadly, they are going to be indoctrinated in to this idea regardless, most likely. I have always been very against gender in my parenting, and my dd13 has been taught the difference between sex and gender and we've discussed this over and over again over the last several years and she has agreed with me, but now every single one of her friends are trans, and she asks every peer what their gender is and they all use him or he/her/them pronouns. Every parent I know who has challenged stereotypes with their children now has a trans identifying teen. It seems the more you challenge it the more open they are to the whole fucking agenda. I honestly don't see how to avoid it anymore. I know at least 20 young teenagers who are transgender just from my dd's childhood and school friends and my friends teens.

NowtSalamander · 28/09/2020 14:49

Books that I read with my two who are both v GNC.
Picture books: I personally am not a fan of all of those “rebel girl”- type books. What works best is just normal girls and boys doing non stereotypical things without preachiness -and make it the best written story you can find so it’s extra memorable. Carol Ann Duffy is your woman - a lot of them are out of print but Queen Munch and Queen Nibble, Skipping Rope Snake and anything else you can find by her. Others we found good: Charlie and Lola (Charlie the caring boy and Lola the adventurous); pretty much anything by Quentin Blake but the Mrs Armitage series in particular

First chapter books: Harriet the spy, wolves of willoughby Chase, swallows and amazons series, the practical princess, the boy in the dress (I don’t like Walliams but it’s hard to find something that includes not just non masculine boys but explicitly feminine: worth a look from this perspective) pippi longstocking

I could go on - let me know if you need more or an older age range.

Mykidsthinkimclueless · 28/09/2020 14:49

I was hoping for literature for young people that addresses it directly - the transgender trend one mentioned earlier looks good for young ones. However on reflection an older version of that would be too heavy handed for older child. Likely to be resistant. Will keep going with the recommendations for female leads.

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WeeMadArthur · 28/09/2020 14:42

If you are after books with a strong female lead how about The Train to impossible places or Morrigan Crow?

BovaryX · 28/09/2020 14:41

@Mykidsthinkimclueless

School BovaryX.
That is propaganda and indoctrination. Of Primary school children. Liz Truss needs to ensure this is shut down.
Mykidsthinkimclueless · 28/09/2020 14:40

Having a look at that one and the others thanks.

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Mykidsthinkimclueless · 28/09/2020 14:39

School BovaryX.

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SwimmingCait · 28/09/2020 14:38

What about Tyke Tiler? Tyke is a very rambunctious 12 year old and you only find out in the last chapter that she is a girl.

BovaryX · 28/09/2020 14:35

My children have a very established view that boys are often boys on the outside, girls on the inside and vice versa

Your oldest child is 10? Was he exposed to this incoherent ideology at school? Where did he learn this?

Mykidsthinkimclueless · 28/09/2020 14:24

Oldest is ten (both boys) and quite interested in social and political issues despite his young age.
Actually both happily read books that have female leads. Maybe I just have to hope he will start to think beyond the messages from school.

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