Woman’s Hour Tuesday

But great for Dr Nic getting in, trans women are male.

We all need to be clearly saying this over and over.

It makes me really angry.

What is the point of women's hour if not to discuss women's issues and what bigger issue have we had in the past decade then women's ability to define and name themselves under the law, to protect all their rights??

And yet women's hour have treated it like a small side issue, with barely lip service given.

And why have a male on to argue the other side?? Shouldn't it have been a trans man, so that it was being looked at from the point of impact on female people?

I have had it with the BBC.

It's vitally important that women are repeatedly called "people" against their wishes, but a transwoman must never ever be called "people".

I suppose it is an improvement on previous outings for this debate on Woman's Hour but that's not saying much. Damp squib is right.

They cannot get a handle on this issue or its importance to so many people. Completely out of touch.

Sound quality was awful.
Dr Nic was clear and concise. The other participant was me, me, me.

It's real progress that Dr Nic was able to say that TW are not women though. She said it very clearly and firmly and kindly, and wasn't shouted over. I think the last time WH held a discussion on this (was the fragrant Sally Hines involved?) there was much interruption and maximum volume emotional drama.

This could have been better, and I'm very disappointed that Jane Garvey is still holding the GC speakers to much harsher account than the TW. But I'd say it was a big improvement on previous R4 discussions, when women were only allowed to speak through a scold's bridle with 'bigot' written on it.

StandUpStraight I'm enraged at them, their reporting on the GRA and self ID has been pathetic, considering it's one of the most significant women's rights issues in the UK in the last decade, and now they are just full on gaslighting. You just know that creep demanded to be called a woman, and they rolled over and did what they were told.

That really was an anticlimax. The focus really was on Peto and Peto's reality. Dr Nic was clear, concise and cut off.

response on twitter seems positive and lots of people sharing Dr Heather's involvement in a scheme designed to incraese female representation and their behaviour towards Rose Duffield

I honestly think that anyone casually listening to that in their kitchen or the car, without any particular inside knowledge, would have been nodding along in agreement to everything that Dr Nic said and would have been brought up with a sharp mental 'Really???' several times at HP.

Dr Nic spoke basic common sense - 'the need for women's single sex spaces hasn't changed' - so HP suggesting that this is some sinister, secret alt right campaign just sounds bonkers and undermined their argument further. You can just imagine Ms Smith of Tunbridge Wells, blissfully unaware of what's been going on for the past 3 years, thinking 'well I want the ladies' toilet to be for women only and so would all of my friends' and dismissing HP and their alt-right conspiracy theory without further thought.

I can see why the TRAs really wanted #nodebate to work. When women are allowed to speak uninterrupted the house of cards just can't stand up.

I’m with you AmericanSlang.

I take it from their use of the word “women” in that context that this is also what they intend the word to mean in the title of the program. I’m done with them.

dragoncheeselady this is the whole point for TRAs, this is why Woman's Hour are saying the programme features two women who have campaigned on the GRA. Heather wants to be called a woman, and I've had it with this gaslighting bullshit

Well that was a disappointing damp squib wasn't it? And yes I did think Jane Harvey was dismissive towards Dr Nic. This act had such huge repercussions for women's rights, and this half arsed segment is the best they could do?

Dr Nic was great but Heather Petos continuing insistence that transwomen are another group of women pissed me off. I am with Dr Nic here Trans women and not women they are men

"With the greatest respect, trans women are not women", "males are not female"! Yes!

But Peto got the final word and trotted out, unchallenged, the olde chestnutte of blaming made-up "alt-right" forces for secretly being behind these nasty feminists standing up for basic truth.

I'm still waiting for my first bank transfer from the alt-right - or Russia, evangelical Christians, the Galactic Empire or whoever else is the latest mysterious force that's supposed to be secretly funding us. I do hope they have my correct sort code.

Dr Nic was great though but she seemed to be getting cut off and at one Jane said ‘well that’s Your opinion’ in a slightly dismissive way.

StandUpStraight that's how I feel about it! Maybe Heather's price for appearing on the programme was to have women describing Heather as a woman.

There seems to be a big focus on dr h being sexually assaulted and also ‘removing rights from transgender women will harm the safety of all women’.
No addressing of the issue of safety and privacy for actual women?
Rather a rushed conversation I feel, and a bit unsatisfying.

Was Peto’s closing argument really that if we win this one then bigots and racists will win every argument ever? (I paraphrase, ofc).

Well done Dr Nic. Not sure why Heather thought carrying around a female birth certificate would help on the street? Or if they realise that sexual assault on females isn't taken seriously...!

I don't think anyone listening to that would be in any doubt about who's talking sense.

Well done Dr Nic. Clear, concise and also compassionate. I can't imagine anyone would argue with any of what she said.

Bad sound quality on this debate is making it difficult listening. Very annoying.