Woman’s Hour Tuesday

Oh wow, that blog post by Peto is just...wow. They really come across as completely deranged. And narcissistic to a degree I don’t think I’ve ever encountered before. And this is the person WH decided to give credibility to? Jesus.

For anyone who is interested in finding out a bit more about Heather, there is a very informative thread on 🥝 🚜

However, I think it's important for the voices speaking publicly about this, to people who aren't so aware of the issue, to maintain a compassionate tone, simply because lots of basically decent, right-thinking but unaware women will be alienated from the GC position if it comes across as being cruel or unpleasant.

I think that's a really good point

I think it would help if people like Peto were not presented as the status quo, and the status quo represented as an attack.

People expect the presenter of a long running programme for women to be the starting point of where reasonableness lies, so that they can understand and gather their thoughts.

Having something clearly that unreal presented as moderate is confusing for listeners and is why they feel they cannot respond or say something. Because they must be wrong.

I do think it's really important that people like Peto are given ample time to state their case to as many and as wide an audience as possible.

I would encourage anyone who is uncertain to read more of Peto's own words, such as that really informative blog post.

So, let's encourage Peto onto the radio more often to talk about women and women's rights. So long as we also have a woman like Nic on for balance, I think it's okay to discuss these things. It's so important to have these debates out in the open.

For info: Heather Peto was calling for Rosie Duffield's head recently:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/heather-peto-and-the-benefits-of

For the sake of balance, here is Heather Peto's very detailed explanation of Peto's suspension and tribunal etc:

heatherpeto.substack.com/p/rebutting-transphobic-trolls-6a1

I share the fury and frustration with the need for women to be compassionate. However, I think it's important for the voices speaking publicly about this, to people who aren't so aware of the issue, to maintain a compassionate tone, simply because lots of basically decent, right-thinking but unaware women will be alienated from the GC position if it comes across as being cruel or unpleasant.

There's SO MUCH wrong with that, I know, but articulate women like Nic Williams, talking sense, firmly asserting facts, but advocating kindness too are hugely helpful to getting message across at a time when the tide is definitely turning. It's not about women being mean, it's about women having the right to boundaries.

If the programme can speak up for women's rights in far-flung parts of the world, why can't it speak openly about the biggest threat to women's rights this country has seen in the last 50+ years.

THIS.

I am so sick of this now. I think with all the progress that has been made in the last few months, the team behind WH need to think very carefully. They are not going to come out of all this well if they don't find their courage.

Does anyone have a transcript? I thought Nic's responses were clear and precise.

I'm guessing Heather Peto insisted on being introduced as a women as a precondition to appearing. Others (Jane Fae I think) have refused to appear on the show live because of the real and present danger posed to them by women who speak the truth.

Obviously the BBC should not have bowed to this but they are craven arseholes so listeners will just have to rely on their own ears to work out what's actually going on...

I'm afraid the bit that leapt out at me was Nic saying we needed to show compassion.

Hmm... Haven’t listened - but did HP mention about showing compassion to women and girls?

I’ll take a guess - NOT!

[quote Kit19]Wild Woman Writing Club has done a summary of what wa said on twitter

twitter.com/wwwritingclub/status/1310868333118590976?s=20[/quote]
The Wild Woman Writing Club's version is much clearer and I'm surprised at what I must have heard but didn't absorb (perhaps because I was standing in my kitchen making soup). I found Nic Williams quite difficult to hear/ listen to because of the bad quality of the broadcast and my rage at Peto got in the way of hearing some of the specifics, so well done WWWC.

I'm afraid the bit that leapt out at me was Nic saying we needed to show compassion. I'm not in a compassionate mood.

How can we possibly be saying, years down the line, that the factual statement that women do not have penises and that a transwoman is not a woman, is a step forward. It's a measure of how patriarchal and woke the BBC is that a simple statement of biological fact is regarded as taboo-breaking.

That was a shitshow. Nic fading in and out and sounding distorted and unpleasant to listen to, Jane Garvey being dismissive of her, HP's rambling 'me, me, me'/ misleading 'wah, not fair' evasive and emotive and not piked apart by Garvey. If Justin Webb had been on the case it would have been very different.

I have a friend who knows that there's something not right about men being allowed to 'become' women by just saying they are but hasn't come the full GC mile. She pm'd me after the programme and said she's confused even more now, had transpeople been deprived of rights like HP said and was Liz Truss's decision not to allow self-ID unfair — so I don't think the message was loud and clear at all except to those of us who already know it.

I grew up listening to WH and now I just want them to put it quietly to sleep. If the programme can speak up for women's rights in far-flung parts of the world, why can't it speak openly about the biggest threat to women's rights this country has seen in the last 50+ years. Shameful.

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I have.

I found the piece a bit meh. Nic wasn’t given enough space to expand her points, and giving Heather the opening and closing remarks was quite telling in terms of where they wanted the debate to land.

Little has changed since that first Victoria Derbyshire (?) programme when Nic and Pilgrim went armed with much knowledge about the GRA/Equality Act and proposed changes and were asked, after a lengthy film by naice trans people, why she hated trans people so much or some such.

But Nic learned fast and become good at dealing with the interruptions. But they still manage the 'debate' in the same way. There is a lot of reasoning and information that people out there are missing out on.

It is frustrating and has made me realise what the people talking about BBC bias are on about.

Wild Woman Writing Club has done a summary of what wa said on twitter

twitter.com/wwwritingclub/status/1310868333118590976?s=20

Jane Garvey is definitely toeing the line, although she did get very exasperated and didn't hide it all too well with Sally Hines whenever she was on.

What is the audience make up of Women's Hour? I'm struggling to think why it would have to be particularly woke, apart from BBC politics.

I fear that BBC is a lost cause now.
This rubbish about the 100+ genders is still up btw
www.bbc.co.uk/teach/class-clips-video/rse-ks2-identity-understanding-sexual-and-gender-identities/zfqrhbk

I hope Jenni Murray can speak out more about what’s being going on behind the scenes at the BBC when she leaves Woman’s Hour.

I found the piece a bit meh. Nic wasn’t given enough space to expand her points, and giving Heather the opening and closing remarks was quite telling in terms of where they wanted the debate to land.

What this shows me is that WH is hamstrung when it comes to talking about issues pertaining to the rights of women to single sex spaces.

There is something exasperating going on behind the scenes. I expect that someone has had to work very hard to get the slot at all

At least they are discussing it, badly and late, but, they have, at long last, discussed it. I think Jane Garvey is toeing a line, without her balancing act/performing-being-harder-on-the-GC-position then I doubt this discussion would have happened at all.

These are baby steps, but, they are steps.

Thank you to Dr Nic Williams. You are brilliant.

Being able to have a debate is a small advance but it still wasn't right. Pete was given Opening Statement and Williams was asked to reply. Why wasn't Williams allowed to have an Opening Statement, too?

I think Jane Garvey is deliberately keeping her position quiet so she can still chair debates like this. Jenni Murray wrote openly about her gender critical position in The Times and obviously hasn't been allowed by the BBC to present any programmes on the subject since. All very sinister.

Wasted opportunity again,
what exactly is Jane Garvys position re trans ? Anyone know