Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Open Letter from Autors and Entertainers in Support of JKR

281 replies

Igneococcus · 27/09/2020 07:15

In the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d714149e-003d-11eb-a6ce-737681864bdd?shareToken=522b280f5312e063be007bba64a0e96d

Here is the letter (a few down the list):
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2e240198-fe6a-11ea-a6ce-737681864bdd?shareToken=8bcca8afb981c27e32894e05e7776f41

And the signatories:

We wish JK Rowling well and stand in solidarity with her.
Ian McEwan, author; Lionel Shriver, author; Griff Rhys Jones, actor; Graham Linehan, writer; Maureen Chadwick, writer; Andrew Davies, writer; Frances Barber, actress; Craig Brown, writer; Alexander Armstrong, actor; Amanda Craig, writer; Philip Hensher, writer; Susan Hill, writer; Jane Thynne, writer; Ben Miller, actor; Simon Fanshawe, writer; James Dreyfus, actor; Frances Welch, writer; Francis Wheen, writer; Arthur Matthews, writer; Aminatta Forna, writer; Joan Smith, writer; Nick Cohen, journalist; Kath Gotts, composer & lyricist; Ann McManus, writer; Eileen Gallagher, writer & producer; Jimmy Mulville, producer; Lizzie Roper, actress; Stella O’Malley, author; Nina Paley, animator; Julie Bindel, journalist; Abigail Shrier, journalist; Rachel Rooney, author; Jane Harris, writer; Tatsuya Ishida, cartoonist; Lisa Marchiano, author; Zuby, musician and author; Debbie Hayton, journalist; Gillian Philip, Author, Jonny Best, musician; Manick Govinda, arts consultant; Russell Celyn Jones, writer; Magi Gibson, writer; Victoria Whitworth, writer; Dr Mez Packer, writer; Grace Carley, producer; Sam Leith, journalist; Malcolm Clark, television producer-director; Shirley Wishart, musician; Charlotte Delaney, writer; Nehanda Ferguson, musician; Justin Hill, writer; Trezza Azzopardi, writer; Birdy Rose, artist; Jess de Wahls, textile artist; Mo Lovatt, writer; Simon Edge, novelist; Tom Stoppard, playwright; and Amanda Smyth, writer

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Sexnotgender · 28/09/2020 09:03

I’ve had a really shit weekend but this has really cheered me up.

Can you imagine this happening a year ago? I certainly can’t. The wheels are coming off! Thank fuck.

Itsinthetreesitscoming · 28/09/2020 08:36

Dame Jenni ❤️

Cuntysnark · 28/09/2020 08:35

Dame Jenni is no surprise but my heart soared. Cannot wait for her contract to expire.

NecessaryScene1 · 28/09/2020 08:29

My take is that the left isn't in fact the left. The people who consider themselves to be on the left have changed in a fundamental way.

We're getting off-topic, but... At least it's not as bad here as it's got over the Atlantic. Two good threads on that topic here, both replying to the same tweet, from James Lindsay and Anna Slatz.

Some blue tick posts a pic of a run-down house with a porch full of Trump 2020 posters with the caption "This is called voting against your own best interests."

Reponses, edited down, emphasis mine:

Slatz:

the working class are, by and large, siding with Trump because the loudest voices in “the left” are woke capitalists who fundamentally hate the working class

this isn’t difficult

The working class are currently under the impression there isn’t a “left” movement beyond screeching IdPol maniacs who would throw them under the bus the moment they bought the wrong kind of asparagus.

Lindsay:

There's a simple explanation for why the lower class on the right and the upper class on the right unite into a single coalition very naturally. They're not bourgeois. [...]

The working class generally understand that there are elites in society[...]

What the working class hates with great hate are fake elite posers (the bourgeois) who pretend to be people's betters without producing anything of any real value and then believe they're above the rest of society and the rules, except they didn't earn it.

The Democrats have slowly become the party of the bourgeois fake elites over the last few decades, and the majority of the working class resents them more than they can even put words to. [...]

What the working class, the guy who voted for Obama out of hope and then Trump four years later, hates more than anything is pretentious better-than-you fake elite bourgeois posing. They see straight through it and hate it. Wokeness is that. They hate it. [...]

PPS: The bourgeoisie tends to be eaten up by what Nietzsche described as "ressentiment," which is a kind of curdled envy. They wish they were good enough to be elite but aren't but think too highly of themselves to come down to Earth and get a real job.

Bit more than that in each of their threads, but that's the key points.

If you were a woman in the US, given a choice between a party that wants to mess with abortion laws at federal level, and a party is currently put men in women's prisons at state level, it's seems to me that voting for either party would be "voting against your own best interests".

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 28/09/2020 08:23

My take is that the left isn't in fact the left. The people who consider themselves to be on the left have changed in a fundamental way. When you scratch the surface they are usually not left economically, and it's only because social liberalism became associated with the left that there is an appearance that they are similar there - but really, it's a liberalism based on a kind of individualism that matches their economic vision

With you, Goosefoot. If your views on the economy aren’t leftwing, then you’re not leftwing, full stop. The gender identity movement is so extremely individualistic, it’s pretty much the exact opposite of leftwing.

Idealistic young lefties used to want to change the world — realistic or not, we hoped to make a better world for everyone. Identity politics is about “The world must change to suit me, I am all-important.”

SunsetBeetch · 28/09/2020 08:04

What do they really have in common with traditional leftism, with it's basis in low level community engagement, collective labour action, or the kind of really fairly traditional social values that it used to espouse? Pretty much zilch.

Exactly. The problem with today's left runs far deeper than their neglect of women's rights.

Goosefoot · 28/09/2020 02:10

What do they really have in common with traditional leftism, with it's basis in low level community engagement, collective labour action, or the kind of really fairly traditional social values that it used to espouse? Pretty much zilch.

And to add to that - the fact is anyone who is a traditional sort of conservative has a lot more overlap - community over state or individualism, relatively conservative social values, even a distrust of free market capitalism.

Modern libertarian conservatism and modern "progressive" liberalism are a lot closer to each other than old school leftism.

Goosefoot · 28/09/2020 02:06

@Tootletum

I really dislike Lionel Shriver, even though her books are stunning. Her political articles in the spectator seem like angry pub chat. It's hardly a surprise she signed given she's a social Conservative. It's all good and necessary, but I worry about the skew to Conservative voices. Where are the left wingers? Why are all my left wing friends so convinced that JKR is somehow a tory redneck, when she's a lifelong Labour voter and The Casual Vacancy was practically a socialist manifesto? Wtf has happened to the centre left?
My take is that the left isn't in fact the left. The people who consider themselves to be on the left have changed in a fundamental way. When you scratch the surface they are usually not left economically, and it's only because social liberalism became associated with the left that there is an appearance that they are similar there - but really, it's a liberalism based on a kind of individualism that matches their economic vision.

What do they really have in common with traditional leftism, with it's basis in low level community engagement, collective labour action, or the kind of really fairly traditional social values that it used to espouse? Pretty much zilch.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/09/2020 01:06

Frances Barber isn't a conservative - homeless leftie, I think?

Barber urged a vote for the Labour Partyy^ at the 2017 UK general electionn^. Critical of Labour leader Jeremy Corbynn^, she said "I will vote Labour holding my nose. Urge you too."[9] In September 2017, she resigned from the party, saying: "I can't belong to a party full of Misogyny, Anti-Semitism and Thuggery"

AnotherLass · 28/09/2020 00:59

Where are the left wingers?

Tony Robinson is a socialist at least. He has spoken at a number of socialist rallies over the years.

Halfeatentoast · 27/09/2020 23:51

Wow! This is amazing! Thanks to everyone who put their head above the parapet for this.

Tootletum · 27/09/2020 23:45

I really dislike Lionel Shriver, even though her books are stunning. Her political articles in the spectator seem like angry pub chat. It's hardly a surprise she signed given she's a social Conservative. It's all good and necessary, but I worry about the skew to Conservative voices. Where are the left wingers? Why are all my left wing friends so convinced that JKR is somehow a tory redneck, when she's a lifelong Labour voter and The Casual Vacancy was practically a socialist manifesto? Wtf has happened to the centre left?

SunsetBeetch · 27/09/2020 23:33

@BlackWaveComing

Lionel Shriver, who signed, has been pushing back on id pol for a long time.
She has. She's excellent.
FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue · 27/09/2020 23:31

I am so heartened to see this. (Have put my head above the parapet and shared the Times article on fb.)

fatblackcatspaw · 27/09/2020 23:28

Anthony Horowiz as well on twitter says his name was left off HURRAH FOR DAME JENNI!!

NotBadConsidering · 27/09/2020 23:22

@BlackWaveComing

Lionel Shriver, who signed, has been pushing back on id pol for a long time.
Yes, her latest (excellent) book had an entire chapter on it, with so many familiar references I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s on this forum.

Waves to Lionel 👋

FindTheTruth · 27/09/2020 23:08

Manick Govinda, arts consultant
twitter.com/manick62/status/1310248115904053248

I signed a letter in defence of jk_rowling in thesundaytimes with many other authors, actors, artists. Some artist friends have unfriended or blocked me for my support of #jkrowling’s right to an objective, fair opinion. Equal rights for all, but self-identity politics?

Some artist friends have unfriended or blocked me

FindTheTruth · 27/09/2020 23:04

Nina Paley animator
twitter.com/ninapaley/status/1310256104186818565

FindTheTruth · 27/09/2020 23:01

Sam Leith, journalist; twitter.com/questingvole/status/1310305212742225921

BlackWaveComing · 27/09/2020 22:58

@BaronessWrongCrowd

https://mobile.twitter.com/Tony_Robinson/status/1310266570850041856

This is cheering. I've always had a soft spot for Tony.

Me too, and that tweet made me happy.
BlackWaveComing · 27/09/2020 22:57

Lionel Shriver, who signed, has been pushing back on id pol for a long time.

FloralBunting · 27/09/2020 22:56

We knew it would happen eventually. And each of us who has been at it for a long time knows the way Jo Rowling must gave felt when she poured out her heart and faced opprobrium, and worse, the stunning lack of public support. It's draining and hard.

But you know what? This is the epitome of a collective effort. Not one individual has pushed this into the light, it's been the efforts of all of us - anons and names alike. I'm so, so proud to be part of a resurgence of genuine feminism, and I never ever thought I'd say that. And more, I'm tremendously relieved that a dystopia where vulnerable kids were left at risk looks like it could fade back into fiction, and hopefully there will be retribution for those already harmed.

Bloody well done to all of you. X

Campervan69 · 27/09/2020 22:48

Ooooh Jenni Murray 💜💗

twitter.com/whjm/status/1310332475059638272?s=19

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 27/09/2020 22:20

Good to see these people speaking up for women.

Campervan69 · 27/09/2020 21:56

Matthew D'Ancona

twitter.com/MatthewdAncona/status/1310320687513579528?s=19