I ❤️ J K Rowling Spreading across USA

Got it.

🤣

Thank God this shit isn't going to be taught in schools anymore.

Fine. danascully96 fucks off before aknowledging my post.
And I wasn't even judgemental in it. Honestly, why do we bother?

For she judged us.

Why are only women supposed to focus on everyone except themselves?

The RNLI raises funds to buy new lifeboats. What about guide dogs and asylum seekers and birds and animal cruelty and clean water and famine relief? What bigots, not to campaign on all those other issues as well.

I don't really follow the idea that people saying I

I said her tweets were irresponsible. I never mentioned her essay. I had only read the letter she and Atwood signed among a bunch of other authors.

Which of her tweets do you find irresponsible?

Why doesn’t she share research that confirms trans rights if she is truly in support and not just trying to prove a point?

What do you mean by this? Confirms trans rights? WHY should she be focussing on anything to do with trans rights, when her concern is womens rights and spaces?

When people are campaigning to remove womens rights, do they also spend the time to 'share research to confirm womens rights'? Are they expected to?

Why are only women supposed to focus on everyone except themselves?

Are you happy for male bodied individuals to be incarcerated with women prisoners, compete against women in power sport, deliver smear tests as women and be given access to specifically women's aid shelters and rape refuges?

But saying no they shouldn't be might raise trans suicide rates! Fuck vulnerable women involved, trans suicide!!

Sorry I find this really disgusting tbh. Continually trying to guilt women out of standing up for their rights by using suicide stats that may or may not be accurate, but are irrelevant to the conversation either way. I refuse to believe trans people kill themselves en masse because women say no and insist on speaking about their own experiences. Sorry.

I said her tweets were irresponsible. I never mentioned her essay. I had only read the letter she and Atwood signed among a bunch of other authors. Why doesn’t she share research that confirms trans rights if she is truly in support and not just trying to prove a point? I’ve made my position clear and have even conceded some of your points. If my words are rants to you, then I’m going to fuck off. Thanks for the enlightening convo.

Also talking about suicide does not = continually telling a group of people who have a high rate of mental health issues to start with..that others like them are likely to kill themselves. Nor does high suicide rates mean said group can do as they please else suicide may go up. Using suicide as a means of control is abusive.

I do find it interesting that many trans orgs insist on using (potentially false) suicide stats and parroting them everywhere, given the samaritans guidelines on such use of suicide though..

www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/media-guidelines/suicide-facts-journalists/

Are you happy for male bodied individuals to be incarcerated with women prisoners, compete against women in power sport, deliver smear tests as women and be given access to specifically women's aid shelters and rape refuges?

If you’re going to say it’s irresponsible for me to bandy about suicide stats for trans people, don’t you think it’s irresponsible to tweet about an issue without knowing whether the stats are correct or without conclusive evidence either way

I don't think trans suicide stats come into it at all when you come at this froma protecting womens rights angle. I dont see why women should effectively be silenced on a matter that affects them because another group might have high suicide rates? So no, tbh I don't think its irresponsible to want to protect womens rights, even if those attacking them might possibly have high suicide rates.

Her entire essay was hypotheticals and anecdotes — why do you trust that over my stats?

Again, her essay was about her experiences, and womens rights. Your stats might well be right, its still irrelevant to me. I am sorry if trans people do have high suicide rates, I would suggest a possible reason for this is co-morbidities that get brushed under the carpet in favour of immediate affirmation and thinking transition will solve everything (I have read a study that said self harm rates were no different after transition once, couldnt remember where though, but used to be posted by trans groups) and ignori8ng the other issues at play, but regardless of the reason for it (if it is indeed true, which it may be) it has no bearing whatsoever on women speaking about their own experiences and wishing to retain the rights women currently have in law

And for your anger over TRAs branding you all as TERFs, you sure like to stereotype just as boldly about TRAs

I don't give a singular shit about being 'branded a TERF'. I DO care when a number of m,ens rights activists descend on my private messages telling me I should be raped, or my CHILDREN should be attacked as their mother is a bigoted cunt. I care when I find out said mens rights activists are making lists trying to find out the actual addresses of said bigoted cunts and compiling all data they can find. Aided by a Labour MP, if my memory serves correctly.

I’ve provided peer-reviews articles, you’ve provided an essay and an article from a website that is anti-trans

Hand well and truly shown here tbh. fairplayforwomen is 'antitrans'. So you are one of those who reckon defending womens rights (note, NOT taking away trans rights) is anti-trans. Not surprising given you came here ranting about JKs essay being transphobic without even reading it. Have you even read/understood the links you have posted by the way?

Slightly off topic but does anybody know anything about the man responsible for these billboards? What are his politics besides being GC? It doesn’t matter to me as they’re not relevant to his support for women’s rights but I’m just curious.

I’m sorry your ex was so abusive, @BatShite. I think you’re advancing a straw man about my argument. Just because I’m urging caution in an issue that might have the possibility of increasing suicide, doesn’t mean trans rights is a Kafka trap. From what I understand, talking about suicide is more helpful than not: suicideprevention.nv.gov/Youth/Myths/
If you’re going to say it’s irresponsible for me to bandy about suicide stats for trans people, don’t you think it’s irresponsible to tweet about an issue without knowing whether the stats are correct or without conclusive evidence either way? Her entire essay was hypotheticals and anecdotes — why do you trust that over my stats? And for your anger over TRAs branding you all as TERFs, you sure like to stereotype just as boldly about TRAs. I’ve provided peer-reviews articles, you’ve provided an essay and an article from a website that is anti-trans (fairplayforwomen.com). My stats were at least from scientific journals.

domestic violence shelters/charities shouldn’t house trans people because women have a rightful fear of people who remind them of their
abuser, but there are trans-only shelters for people in the US, so I think it’s an issue with solutions

Have yet to see any person male or female stopping trans shelters/prisons/hospital wards et al from coming into being.
I mean no way now would I fundraise, but i wouldn't actively prevent fundraising from happening. I wouldn't put spokes in the wheel if they decided to build a shelter/buy somewhere and convert to a shelter/build prisons just for trans/even whole hospitals for trans. It's all good, crack on with it already.
I could be persuaded to campaign for toilets for them, only because the quicker that happens the better for women, but that's about all. Too much bad blood gone by for me to actively help. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

Since I started talking about this, I have seen the same from 'this side'. That women would campaign alongside TRAs if what they wanted was trans specific services. The issue is that what they are fighting for will actively take away from women. There seems to be an assumption that women are just being awkward and trying to stop trans people getting any help, thats never been the case. We just won't give up OUR rights. I know I would march alongside TRAs if they were pressuring for trans specific shelters/changing rooms/whatever (once they dropped the rampant misogyny of course, currently with how they behave I would not feel even slightly safe, even if 'on their side'), would also contribute to crowdfunders and help in any way that I could.

If you don’t think the suicide rate for trans people is accurate, are we willing to risk the possibility the numbers are true?

Signs of an abuser tbh, weaponizing suicide in such a way. I had an ex who did this, and I stayed with him for years more than I should as I believed that if I left I would 'cause' his death. Of course, it would never have been me, had he chosen to do it. Blaming feminists for the (possible) suicides of transpeople is therefor fucking gross to me tbh. But oddly common..which always interests me. Do as we say or you are literally causing deaths, give up your rights or you are basically a murderer

she’s right that domestic violence shelters/charities shouldn’t house trans people because women have a rightful fear of people who remind them of their abuser, but there are trans-only shelters for people in the US, so I think it’s an issue with solutions.

Very happy for trans people to have trans-only shelters, or shelters just for MTF trans people and for FTM trans people. It's extremely naive to assume that's what TRAs want or that women are in any way obstructing this goal.

I find it odd that jkr is accused of setting herself up as an authority for saying a few things while so many much more official groups have decided they can speak as an authority as to why women who have any concerns are hateful bigots and that's AOK.

It’s irresponsible of JKR to anoint herself as an authority on this issue

She never did this. She gave her opinion on a topic that affects her and millions of women like her. Thats it. That its the 'wrong' opinion according to some..matters not, she still is not setting herself as any authority..simply speaking on a topic that matters to her.

I'm nervous that a man is taking control of it. A man who is never knew of before he did.

I agree with this, feels..odd somehow.

Re the stats

How about the ones about women's experiences with creepy men.

The experiences that lead us to think allowing men into women's spaces-that exist for safety and privacy- on their say so is asking for trouble for women. And the fact that saying this is what has led to women being threatened with rape, death. Has led to revenue being removed from Mumsnet. Has led to women losing their jobs. And so on.

Tone deaf poster on here.

Also, the poster just says I love JKR. She didn't put up the original one (that would be rather narcissistic!). The poster could mean anything. It's as innocuous as you can get.

I found this FPFW article really interesting regarding the Stonewall stats that are used - mostly, it seems, to stop questions during an interview.

To quote the person who conducted the research 'It is indeed unfortunate that the findings from the study have been misinterpreted, even when this is something that happens often when research is used by non-scientists in the context of their own agendas.'

fairplayforwomen.com/suicide/

As a counter suggestion - if you think trans people might be prone to mental health issues including suicide ideation, do you think you should risk telling them all the time that lots of trans people commit suicide and that the whole world, including their favourite childhood author, hates them and wishes they were dead?

I agree. I think it's irresponsible in the extreme to bandy the alleged suicide stats about.