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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another one for Irish Feminists - this person holds a GRC and might soon be held in Dochas prison with women and childrem

437 replies

XXSex · 25/09/2020 12:05

This is a harrowing read.
I feel immensely sorry for the child that was. However I feel more frightened for the women and children G might be incarcerated with.

OP posts:
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Custardcream1244 · 28/09/2020 14:08

This is the text of the email I sent. I,'be tried to keep it on point. I will change my username following this.
Dear
I am contacting you,as a female representative of the Dail, which has been inadequately represented by women, since the foundation of the state.
As you are aware. the Gender Recognition Act of 2015 was brought in to allow people who identified as the opposite gender to their biology, to change their gender, in a manner which removed the need for a medical diagnosis.
Worryingly, there is no requirement on an applicant, to have taken, or plan to take any hormonal therapy or surgery. It also appears to be a system based entirely on trust and on the principles of the Yogyakarta Principles, which , I believe ,have no legal basis.
Given the potential impact on women,and girls in areas such as single sex spaces,which are provided for safety. I would like to enquire what risk assessments were done when this legislation was implemented? Were any Women's rights groups involved in the planning of the legislation?
As those with a GRA certificate are legally women ( even if biologically unchanged), what safeguarding measures are in place to ensure girls are not placed at risk of sexual predators who may use this legislation to their advantage.
I would also wish to draw your attention to the worrying cases, already in the media, of Barbie Kardashian, and of a sex offender with multiple convictions, currently housed in Limerick prison, both of whom obtained GRA certificates on the basis of simply identifying as women.
As there are plans in the programme for government to expand legislation to under 18s, what measures are in place to prevent biological males participating in women's sport, to the detriment of girls and women. What measures are in place to ensure that girls are not put in a position in schools of sharing changing rooms, or toilets with biological males?

I would also appreciate your opinion on the decision of the HSE to remove the word woman from its cervical screening website. Given that research has shown 40% of women are unaware they have a cervix this would appear to put marginalised women , with poor literacy skills , or with English as a second language at greater risk. I wish to point out that Transmen are well catered for, and in no way excluded, on the same website. With thanks
Custard cream

Annasgirl · 28/09/2020 13:20

Also, should we do an open letter to TD's and Ministers? Get it published? Or get a signed petition like the one on the HSE?

Annasgirl · 28/09/2020 13:19

@Custardcream1244

I have emailed all female TD's re this issue. I will come back with responses (or lack of) as I receive them.
Hi Custard

Would you mind sharing the wording? I will email everyone too. I hope I get a better response than I did when I emailed re Schools reopening.

Custardcream1244 · 28/09/2020 10:47

I have emailed all female TD's re this issue. I will come back with responses (or lack of) as I receive them.

EarlofEggMcMuffin · 28/09/2020 07:29

Extremely depressing, Gerbil.

Given how long it took irish women to get basic rights, such as contraception, bodily autonomy with regards to whether their organs should be removed or not, abortion, the right to work after marriage, I worry about our ability to change the ridiculousness that has taken hold.

I was heartened by the developments with Liz Truss in the UK, but with the Women's Council fallen, AIMS fallen, men in prisons.....I have daughters, it's very concerning.

NiceGerbil · 28/09/2020 03:35

What I find totally baffling

Is that if you take a step back, like a good step back

And think. The UK and Ireland and other countries altered the law/ guidelines

So that men who said they were women would be housed in the female prison estate as a default

And this was changed quietly and some years ago in the UK and has been in place for some years

And in Ireland is codified in law

And no one knew.
Essentially, the authorities just went ahead and did it.

And then started placing male prisoners including sex offenders in with the women.

I mean that's completely bonkers. Anyone can see that's completely bonkers.

But it happened. The government and whatever other authorities said yep. Green light. Sounds good. Get it into the guidelines.

And no one knew.

How the fuck did this happen? What were they thinking? I know institutional capture etc but... Actual real people with actual real power said, yep. Put violent male sex offenders in women's prisons if that's what they want.

Same with loads of other stuff which if you take a step back is just obviously bonkers.

If so many people in authority are just green lighting shit like this, then our institutions are simply not fit for purpose. At all.

If you get any average person in the street or in the pub and say. Should males be put in women's prisons. Answer is no. Obviously. Before you even get onto sex offenders etc.

But this has actually happened in law in UK, Ireland, Canada etc.

It's incredible.

Someone posted the handwritten equalities risk assessment thingy from when they decided to put males in women's prison there. The part about protected characteristic of sex had n/a written next to it.

I say to DH. All this shows how little when matter. He looks uncomfortable. He sees how it is but can't get to grips with it. Nor can I TBH. All these lawmakers, institutions, etc. Just saying yeah ok.

It's hard to think about, TBH. But it's incredibly eye opening and extremely depressing.

yolio · 28/09/2020 00:04

Custardcream1244,

Wonder why there are so few female to male Self IDs around. Amazing isn't it? But maybe there are I dunno. All focus is on the male to female spaces now.

Anyway will add on a bit about safeguarding as you suggested. My dander is up, and probably need to calm down a bit before sending anything but it will be tomorrow.

Custardcream1244 · 27/09/2020 23:57

@yolio

Aine,

My email will be short and not so sweet,

Hello there TD,

Do you realise that the GRA and self ID in Ireland means that men who self identify with beards and cojones can just go anywhere women go, just because they say they identify as women.

Can I have your response to this invasion of women's spaces as a woman yourself please. Thank you.

Lol, no harm in mentioning safeguarding concerns. It would be interesting to see how they can justify bypassing them.
yolio · 27/09/2020 23:53

Aine,

My email will be short and not so sweet,

Hello there TD,

Do you realise that the GRA and self ID in Ireland means that men who self identify with beards and cojones can just go anywhere women go, just because they say they identify as women.

Can I have your response to this invasion of women's spaces as a woman yourself please. Thank you.

Aine82 · 27/09/2020 23:46

@yolio

Aine82

I am emailing EVERY woman TD in the country. I doubt many of them realise the reality of this for women. But it's a start.

The men don't care because they can go anywhere anyway.

Maybe women need to invade the men spaces. Now what would they be I wonder for a good effect, and I would do it, no problem but it's only their toilets where they get their bits out.

I remember having to go to the mens at a concert in the Point, I couldn't hold on, the Q for the ladies back then was a mile long. Got a great slagging, but they were ace and looked out for me. Will never forget it.

This thing though is a bit more sinister, it is planned.

Amazing, I will try do the same
Custardcream1244 · 27/09/2020 23:44

[quote PopcornAndWine]@Custardcream1244 I agree I would hope that events in the UK might open a few eyes here. And this Barbie Kardashian case has the potential to have truly horrific consequences. I hope not, for the sake of any women who May suffer at his hands, but if it does surely people will have to sit up and take notice?

But then I also see former colleagues and people I would consider friends, who I know to be very intelligent and otherwise good people, liking and sharing Jedward's book-burning tweet about JKR... so I just don't know. [/quote]
Anyone that likes a tweet advocating book burning clearly never listened in history class😒
Nazi Germany anyone??????

yolio · 27/09/2020 23:38

Aine82

I am emailing EVERY woman TD in the country. I doubt many of them realise the reality of this for women. But it's a start.

The men don't care because they can go anywhere anyway.

Maybe women need to invade the men spaces. Now what would they be I wonder for a good effect, and I would do it, no problem but it's only their toilets where they get their bits out.

I remember having to go to the mens at a concert in the Point, I couldn't hold on, the Q for the ladies back then was a mile long. Got a great slagging, but they were ace and looked out for me. Will never forget it.

This thing though is a bit more sinister, it is planned.

Custardcream1244 · 27/09/2020 23:37

@Aine82

Custardcream1244 as far as I am aware FG/Lab Govt only brought it in because they absolutely had to, because of the Foy case?

Who can we write to apart from Minister for Justice?

/murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2020/02/25/from-medical-assessment-to-affirmation-legal-gender-self-declaration-in-ireland/f This is a very good link that explains how we got where we are now.
PopcornAndWine · 27/09/2020 23:27

@Custardcream1244 I agree I would hope that events in the UK might open a few eyes here. And this Barbie Kardashian case has the potential to have truly horrific consequences. I hope not, for the sake of any women who May suffer at his hands, but if it does surely people will have to sit up and take notice?

But then I also see former colleagues and people I would consider friends, who I know to be very intelligent and otherwise good people, liking and sharing Jedward's book-burning tweet about JKR... so I just don't know.

Aine82 · 27/09/2020 23:25

Custardcream1244 as far as I am aware FG/Lab Govt only brought it in because they absolutely had to, because of the Foy case?

Who can we write to apart from Minister for Justice?

Custardcream1244 · 27/09/2020 23:14

@yolio

The Greens were always a bit mad, but it seems that others are following also.

Where the heck did transactivism get all these laws made, and where did their power to influence Governments and society (whether we like it or not) actually come from?

Such a tiny proportion of society has done this to women. Why and How?

Must be some money behind them or something like that.

Lots of links upthread showing how this was brought in "under the radar".
Custardcream1244 · 27/09/2020 23:12

@Aine82

Green Party are a write-off.

www.greenparty.ie/policies/justice-reproductive-rights-gender-recognition/

Gender recognition

Introduce a requirement for provision of gender-neutral public toilet facilities.
Add protection for transgender and intersex people by introducing hate crime legislation.
The Green Party supports the amendment of the Gender Recognition Act 2015 to include recognition of non-binary and non-gendered individuals, and to facilitate gender recognition for people under the age of 18. We believe that further policies need to be implemented to support transgender and intersex people in Ireland, including better education to reduce transphobic bullying in schools.

The Green party has always been completely out of touch with reality and are a complete waste of time. But the GRA 2015 was brought in by Fine Gael, so they aren't going to want to admit any mistakes. SF will jump on any bandwagon. A quick search hasn't shown up much about Fianna Fáil. They are trying to build up grassroots and this would not be popular with the ordinary voter. But they are going down in the polls so won't want this government to fall anytime soon. Yolio, If you get replies get back to us, it will be interesting to see the responses.
yolio · 27/09/2020 23:03

The Greens were always a bit mad, but it seems that others are following also.

Where the heck did transactivism get all these laws made, and where did their power to influence Governments and society (whether we like it or not) actually come from?

Such a tiny proportion of society has done this to women. Why and How?

Must be some money behind them or something like that.

Aine82 · 27/09/2020 23:00

@PopcornAndWine

Following. Don't have much to add but I am in ireland and terrified even to like JK Rowling tweets for fear of being reported to my employer so good to have a place to discuss all this anonymously.
Me too, I should probably change my username!
Aine82 · 27/09/2020 22:59

Green Party are a write-off.

www.greenparty.ie/policies/justice-reproductive-rights-gender-recognition/

Gender recognition

Introduce a requirement for provision of gender-neutral public toilet facilities.
Add protection for transgender and intersex people by introducing hate crime legislation.
The Green Party supports the amendment of the Gender Recognition Act 2015 to include recognition of non-binary and non-gendered individuals, and to facilitate gender recognition for people under the age of 18. We believe that further policies need to be implemented to support transgender and intersex people in Ireland, including better education to reduce transphobic bullying in schools.

Custardcream1244 · 27/09/2020 22:52

@yolio

Custardcream1244

Thanks for the tip off there. Will look it all up when I get a minute. Thanks.

Wouldn't stop me from bombarding her though right now.

Definitely yolio. Helen McEntee is an extremely intelligent woman. I think they need to remember where the votes lie.
yolio · 27/09/2020 22:52

Regina Doherty and Catherine Zappone are no longer in Government having lost their seats.

Mary Lou McDonald is a populist idiot IMV. Sorry now, but there we are.

yolio · 27/09/2020 22:50

Custardcream1244

Thanks for the tip off there. Will look it all up when I get a minute. Thanks.

Wouldn't stop me from bombarding her though right now.

Custardcream1244 · 27/09/2020 22:49

@PopcornAndWine

Following. Don't have much to add but I am in ireland and terrified even to like JK Rowling tweets for fear of being reported to my employer so good to have a place to discuss all this anonymously.
Welcome PopcornandWine. Things in Ireland are not great at the moment. But I hope the huge progress in the UK will open a few eyes. There are a few court cases in the U.K. that may get a few Irish politicians worried enough to engage in critical thinking ( though critical thinking isn't a word that would be paired with politicians too often). The planned review of Tavistock may also have an impact. I do believe the tide will turn. But, unlike the U.K. , we have a bigger hill to climb as the legislation is already in place in Ireland. ANYONE I speak to about this has never heard of it. EVERYONE, however, has been horrified when I explain the implications of Self ID on women and girls. It's not a topic that is easy to bring up in conversation but the Barbie Kardashian case is a good opener ATM. There are a lot of links on this thread. But the feminist section of Mumsnet ,in general ,is a mine of information.