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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another one for Irish Feminists - this person holds a GRC and might soon be held in Dochas prison with women and childrem

437 replies

XXSex · 25/09/2020 12:05

This is a harrowing read.
I feel immensely sorry for the child that was. However I feel more frightened for the women and children G might be incarcerated with.

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Runnersos · 30/09/2020 14:45

That's great glinnerisgreat. At least she acknowledged the issue.
I change my username frequently.
I have no doubt these threads are closely watched by TRA activists.

Glinnerisgreat · 30/09/2020 14:40

BTW, I name change when I refer to all this on here as my name is on all the letters to TD's so it would not take an Einstein office worker to cross reference.

Glinnerisgreat · 30/09/2020 14:39

@Runnersos - I have just had a response from Ivana Bacik. It lists her history of feminist activism and states that she was involved in the GRA act (I knew this already). She said that she has received a lot of similar letters from women on this and will be raising it with the relevant authorities. A bit plamasy and not really saying yes or no to me, but more than I expected seeing as there was a risk I would publish it.

However, what is shows is numbers count - the only thing a TD cares about is the number of people irate at a particular issue. So we need way, way, more women writing these letters.

Please, everyone, get your friends and family involved to write - the number of letters from women will determine the actions to follow.

We have crossed the rubicon here ladies and there is no going back until the GRA is totally repealed (the irony!!!).

Runnersos · 30/09/2020 14:27
Thanks for that. I used samples upthread to email TD's. Needless to say, no response. Though to be fair, they may be looking into it. I did receive one funny reply. It was from a constituency worker who was unsure what to do with the email. It looks like he was trying to forward the email to his supervisor. The message read "do we reply to this". Unfortunately, it appears that instead of hitting the forward button, he hit the reply button. I replied. "I would hope so" Grin I think it is probably too much of a political hot potato for any TD to give an opinion. on.
wellbehavedwomen · 30/09/2020 14:06

@Aine82

Surely any reasonable feminist can see that the law has failed, that this is weak legislation which needs to be remedied. It does not serve the trans community well to have such weak laws that can be exploited and, sadly, will only polarise people even more.

My thoughts are with those women locked in with a rapist and now with this Barbie Kardashian too. Just watch the amount of GRCs skyrocket now, from Arbour Hill to Dóchas.

They may have no voice but we do.

Complete silence from RTE, Irish Times and Irish Independent. It may well take another title to blow the lid on it. It was the Irish Examiner who brought Golfgate to the public attention wasn’t it? Hopefully we will see some proper journalism.

People are too afraid, I think. We need a Janice Turner or a James Kirkup to write a full article on this, and the potential implications for the most vulnerable women of all. Because you know which group DOES have an almost 50% suicide attempt rate? Women prisoners. Almost all of whom have suffered from male violence, especially sexual violence, and are not violent, but very traumatised. And they are very frightened of having males in their spaces, and placing males there harms them. No ifs, buts or ands. The UN mandates single sex prisons as a basic human right - yet that's ignored, based on the subjective claim of a male?

Why is this most marginalised and vulnerable of all groups treated with such contempt? Why don't vulnerable women matter, when set against males? This is such breathtakingly casual misogyny, with such very clear evidence of guaranteed harm, that it should be an international scandal. Yet most countries don't care. These women are seen as disposable, when males demand something that harms them so much. It defies belief.

GrainneMhaol · 30/09/2020 13:51

radicailin.com/our-statement-on-the-male-prisoner-in-limerick-womens-prison-and-letter-template/

Statement and template letter for TD's

SecondRow · 30/09/2020 13:43

Runners, yes, that's the thing - there was an injunction or presumed to be (maybe because reporters knew this was the same person, but weren't supposed to know), then there wasn't?

SecondRow · 30/09/2020 13:39

There are weird contradictions, though, suggesting press, courts and Gardai are not all on the same page regarding the significance of a GRC.

  • when still a minor and anonymous, and could not have had a GRC, court reports "transed" G at G's request, even retro-editing the very psych reports indicating absence of gender dysphoria; press reported care proceedings about a "girl", also retro-transing to when "she" was a child

  • as an adult, BK obtains GRC, is released from care and press report on dangerous teenage girl because court-ordered injunction applied to "certain information"

  • BK arrested and charges brought, Garda state in open court that "she" is male, GRC submitted AND PRESS ALLOWED TO REPORT ON THIS. Judge nonetheless states "cannot make order to hold in women's prison, matter for prison authorities".
  • prison authorities apparently decide, yes, this is a woman.

So at what point does a GRC holder no longer have the protection of the court, ie injunction not to report their sex?

Runnersos · 30/09/2020 13:29

Sorry that should be the 24th September

Runnersos · 30/09/2020 13:29

The initial reports from the Independent, 25th September, do not mention that Barbie is a male.

7Days · 30/09/2020 11:28

Thanks, I got it wrong so, it is important we stick to the facts.

SecondRow · 30/09/2020 11:22

www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teenager-in-custody-charged-with-threats-to-kill-two-people-39563823.html

The Irish Independent did report including that BK is male, because that was stated in open court. They did not link in any of the extra background information from the "G" case.

Aine82 · 30/09/2020 10:14

Surely any reasonable feminist can see that the law has failed, that this is weak legislation which needs to be remedied. It does not serve the trans community well to have such weak laws that can be exploited and, sadly, will only polarise people even more.

My thoughts are with those women locked in with a rapist and now with this Barbie Kardashian too. Just watch the amount of GRCs skyrocket now, from Arbour Hill to Dóchas.

They may have no voice but we do.

Complete silence from RTE, Irish Times and Irish Independent. It may well take another title to blow the lid on it. It was the Irish Examiner who brought Golfgate to the public attention wasn’t it? Hopefully we will see some proper journalism.

Runnersos · 30/09/2020 10:00

I would agree that the fact that the earlier court reports were made at a time when BK was a juvenile, and there are generally strict rules around these things.
The important thing is that if the state hadn't made it so easy for Barbie to become a woman then Barbie would be legally male and in Mountjoy.
So while the media may not be in a position to speak about the specific background of the case , there is nothing stopping them speaking about this horrible law and its implications. Instead, it is being ignored. So if any journalist or politicians are reading this
WE ARE NOT GOING AWAY.
WE WILL FIGHT THIS FOR IRISH WOMEN AND OUR DAUGHTERS.
WE SEE YOU FOR THE HYPOCRITES THAT YOU ARE.

notyourhandmaid · 30/09/2020 09:55

@Bedroomdilemma

Comments enabled, I mean. Clearly this is madness. Unfortunately the fact that it’s only being raised by right wing commentators means that the “right on” can categorise objections as being those of “right wing bigots“. See for example how the AIMS social media account seemed to categorise terfs and anti-choicest together. Rad fems being known for their pro-life views (not).
Yes, exactly! It's so frustrating. Thank you for the reminder that ongoing court case stuff won't have comments enabled, btw.
SecondRow · 30/09/2020 09:46

And this is the angle for the "respectable" media - WHY wasn't this scenario considered in the GRA of 2015?

SecondRow · 30/09/2020 09:45

7Days, yes, the "teenage girl" was ridiculous, especially when we then see that the Gardai can stand up in court and say "here we have a male individual" because obviously that's relevant. There seems to be no clear understanding across the board of what can and can't be said. If it can be mentioned in the context of being prosecuted for a violent crime, why can't it be relevant in which prison he's sent to?

notyourhandmaid · 30/09/2020 09:45

@7Days

Who is J McG?
John McGuirk, sorry! He's been around for years (both in mainstream media and online commentary) and is madly right-wing, very involved in the Save the 8th (anti-abortion) campaigning and generally known for being a bit of an arsehole. It's his website that first shared the leaked Garda info (unless someone can correct me on this?).
Bedroomdilemma · 30/09/2020 09:18

Apologies for typos in that last post!

Bedroomdilemma · 30/09/2020 09:18

Comments enabled, I mean.
Clearly this is madness. Unfortunately the fact that it’s only being raised by right wing commentators means that the “right on” can categorise objections as being those of “right wing bigots“. See for example how the AIMS social media account seemed to categorise terfs and anti-choicest together. Rad fems being known for their pro-life views (not).

Bedroomdilemma · 30/09/2020 09:14

In fairness, the journal article made it clear BK was born male. They can’t have comments on an ongoing court case, that would be absolutely standard.

7Days · 30/09/2020 08:49

Who is J McG?

7Days · 30/09/2020 08:48

Mms failed when they warned us of a dangerous teenage girl, without mentioning his transgender history.
Highly relevant information in the context of a warning.

The gap between Official Ireland and the rest of us widens.

notyourhandmaid · 30/09/2020 08:42

That's not to say mainstream media shouldn't be on this, they absolutely should, but they may be tip toeing for legal as well as woke reasons?

Agree. Keeping it to what's come up in Limerick should be reasonable, though - i.e. born male, violent threats/past.

(Mind you, BK appears to have had a twitter account where she posted links to one of the stories a year or two ago - which in itself is deranged.)

It's a pity the mad anti-choicer J McG is tied up in this - leaking the info - because plenty of people will tut-tut simply due to his association. (And some of the outrage from people seeing this via his site is callous racism rather than giving a shit about women.)

SerenityNowwwww · 30/09/2020 08:41

What would happen to a violent woman in jail who had voiced a desire to murder other women, with a history of attacking women? Would she be put in a special wing? Will this prisoner be kept away from the rest of the prisoners - for their protection? I saw a quote that this person should be go to jail because they are vulnerable (the same claim made for the Amish brothers convicted of rape/invest/pedophilia).