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Original poster

Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.

313 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/09/2020 20:11

Given recent events, I thought it would be interesting to trawl the Wayback Machine and see how the organisation has developed over time with regards to diagnosing children as transgender.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

2009
Gender Identity Disorders in infancy, childhood and adolescence are complex and have varied causes: in the majority of cases the eventual outcome will be homosexuality or bisexuality, but often there will be a heterosexual outcome as some gender issues can be caused by a bereavement, a dysfunctional family life, or (rarely) by abuse. Only a small proportion of cases will result in a transsexual outcome
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html

2010
Gender dyphoria, also known as Gender Identity Disorder, applies to someone who is unhappy with their biological sex and who wishes to belong to the other one.

Gender Identity is the sense of belief that "I am male" or "I am female". A child becomes aware of its gender identity before or around the age of five years, in many cases as early as 2 or 3 years of age. In most people their gender identity is the same as their sex, i.e. a woman or girl feels she is female and a man or boy feels he is male, but in a few people their gender identity and their sex do not match, and this can cause problems.

Gender Identity Issues vary considerably, some may be transient in nature, and some may not. They may arise when a child exhibits cross-gender behaviour to some degree or other. Some may be boys who prefer to take the female role or vice versa; others may have a compulsion to play with toys mostly used by the other sex (for instance, a boy who predominantly plays with dolls or a girl who always plays with action men and 'army toys'). Some children may only feel comfortable when playing with peers of the other physical sex, or may cross-dress from time to time.

Some children may be unhappy about their own biological sex and either wish to belong to the other one, or feel that they actually do; some adolescents may experience a crisis over a problem of gender identity or sexual orientation, or both. These situations can lead to considerable concern and distress for all those involved.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm

2012
For example, your daughter may say that she wants to be a boy, or your son may identify himself as a girl. Or perhaps you are worried about your child's cross gender behaviour, but they won't discuss it with you, and instead are isolated and withdrawn.

Or it may be you, as a young person, and you feel that your body is wrong, and that you should have been a girl if you were born a boy, or a boy if you were born a girl.
(Added to 2010 description)
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria

They seem to have removed their page about gender dysphoria sometime after 2016. However, we can glean some information about how to diagnose children from their parent testimonials

2019
"Kelly"
“From the age of two we started to notice that Evie didn’t quite fit in. I thought that my son was going to be gay, but it became apparent that there was something more than that.

“Evie always wanted to play with dolls, and never had any interest in traditional boys toys, like cars or dinosaurs. We had an older son and the two could not have been more different.

“Evie loved bracelets and constantly wanted to wear one, and when I bought the children Guess Who? to play she unclipped all the female faces and put them in a handbag to carry around with her.

“Evie would look longingly at other little girls who were wearing dresses or skirts, and every time I picked her up from the childminder she would be have raided the dressing up box for a princess costume. She would come to the door to meet me in a sparkly pink dress and a tiara with a big smile on her face.

“At other children’s houses she would love putting on the princess outfits, and would have a meltdown when she had to take them off as it was time to leave.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

"Denise"
“We didn’t notice Sally having any particular problems or issues as she was growing up, but her primary school was very small and the classes were mixed together in infants, so there was no real distinction between boys and girls or age groups.

“But looking back I can see there were pointers. Sally always wanted to play with the dressing up box, and she always wanted to be a princess. She always wanted long hair too.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

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Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/09/2020 21:04

Also, let us not forget...
" In 2016, trans charity Mermaids UK supported and enabled a manipulative woman in her custody dispute because she believed her child was transgender. They fearmongered and severely misrepresented the case, glossing over how the mother isolated and abused her child."

medium.com/@Sirixu/psa-be-careful-of-mermaids-uk-trans-charity-74495fd77ee2

OP posts:
merrymouse · 24/09/2020 21:04

Where did it come unstuck?

Affirmation only? TWAW? Adding T to LGB?

There is a clear shift from dealing with gender dysphoria to asserting that everyone has a gender identity that should be classified and affirmed.

Mammatino · 24/09/2020 20:52

They are trending on twitter and there is very little support that I can see for them. I can’t help think of those countless children and families urged to believe them and the devastation they’ve caused. Lots of abusers do it in plain site but this takes the biscuit.

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/09/2020 20:49

@boatyardblues

The 2009 version is surprisingly balanced and points to multiple causes and outcomes. Where did it come unstuck?
Susie Green? I'm not sure when she became influential?

Her TED talk is very illuminating
www.ted.com/talks/susie_green_transgender_a_mother_s_story/transcript?language=en

"Well, Jack was my first child. I thought I knew what to expect, but really I started to notice that as soon as he got mobile and could express himself, he was gravitating towards things that you would see as stereotypically female. But I wasn't bothered. That didn't, you know, that didn't faze me at all. As far as I was concerned, children should be allowed to play with whatever they want, even if it doesn't fit this norm. And at the childminder's when I went back to work, Jack's favorite outfits were the tutu and Snow White costume. And again, that was fine. But not for Dad. So, Jackie's dad struggled, and he blamed me. His thoughts were that because I allowed the Polly Pocket and the My Little Pony, that I was facilitating and encouraging. And I disagreed. And it caused tensions. What I had come to the conclusion with, over the sort of years until she was about two, was that I had a very sensitive, quite effeminate little boy who was probably gay. "

"But Jack's dad did not approve of our child's effeminate behavior, and it created such tensions that we ended up in couple's counseling. We went to couple's counseling, and what they said to us as parents that we had to agree, no matter what it was that we agreed upon we had to agree. At that point, Tim decided that I must agree with him, apparently, and then all the "girl toys" or "girly toys" as such were taken away and put away, and Jack was made aware that this was not appropriate. And suddenly, a confident, happy little boy became quite quiet, withdrawn, very clingy, and tearful. I didn't like it, and I didn't think it was right. And really for me, the point at which I really put my foot down was about a few weeks later, I think, and my mom phoned me and said, "What's going on with Jack?" and I said "What do you mean?" She said, "Well, I phoned a couple of days ago to ask what Jack wanted for Christmas, and he took the phone out of the room, and he said, 'Can you buy me Barbie Rapunzel? but can you please hide it because if Mommy and Daddy find it, they're going to take it away'"

OP posts:
Melroses · 24/09/2020 20:39

@merrymouse

It always goes back to the the old question,

"please explain gender identity without referring to gender stereotypes".

They should have some really good answers to this by now - they have been asked so many times Wink
boatyardblues · 24/09/2020 20:39

The 2009 version is surprisingly balanced and points to multiple causes and outcomes. Where did it come unstuck?

Mollscroll · 24/09/2020 20:37

This is such a massive backpedal for them. It's huge.

They have almost nowhere left to hide but behind some new sort of gender identity which has no visible or behavioural expression at all.

This new invisible and unknowable gender identity is so central and so vital to life though that if anyone suspects that a child's invisible and unknowable gender identity is not in accordance with some other thing that no one can define (because it's not stereotypes, no siree) then that child must go on puberty blockers pronto and anyone who disagrees is still a bigot.

FloralBunting · 24/09/2020 20:33

Essentially, them's lying liars. Responsible for untold suffering among young people. Wickedness. I hope they are held to account and not allowed to wriggle away from the consequences of their teachings.

littlbrowndog · 24/09/2020 20:33

Great archive by way 💪💪

littlbrowndog · 24/09/2020 20:32

Gawd what does that even mean cis trans non binary

Who can understand any of that

merrymouse · 24/09/2020 20:31

It always goes back to the the old question,

"please explain gender identity without referring to gender stereotypes".

merrymouse · 24/09/2020 20:27

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/understanding-school-guidance/

This is their latest.

DfE: “Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used and you should not work with external agencies or organisations that produce such material.“

This raises a vital distinction which can be difficult to understand at first. Gender identity is who you are as a gendered person. So, if you are a woman for instance, that is your gender identity. However, you might be a woman who expresses in ways seen as ‘masculine’ by traditional society. It shouldn’t matter of course but, in any case, this is your gender expression. We agree that schools should be careful not to confuse the two, as many transgender, cisgender, non-binary and gender-diverse people express themselves freely and should never be judged as a result.

None of this makes any sense. The idea that oppressive gender stereotypes are completely distinct from gender identity is bobbins.

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/09/2020 20:13

I think their claim that they have never suggested that clothes or toys define a person are shown to be rather inaccurate.

OP posts: