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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.

313 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/09/2020 20:11

Given recent events, I thought it would be interesting to trawl the Wayback Machine and see how the organisation has developed over time with regards to diagnosing children as transgender.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

2009
Gender Identity Disorders in infancy, childhood and adolescence are complex and have varied causes: in the majority of cases the eventual outcome will be homosexuality or bisexuality, but often there will be a heterosexual outcome as some gender issues can be caused by a bereavement, a dysfunctional family life, or (rarely) by abuse. Only a small proportion of cases will result in a transsexual outcome
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html

2010
Gender dyphoria, also known as Gender Identity Disorder, applies to someone who is unhappy with their biological sex and who wishes to belong to the other one.

Gender Identity is the sense of belief that "I am male" or "I am female". A child becomes aware of its gender identity before or around the age of five years, in many cases as early as 2 or 3 years of age. In most people their gender identity is the same as their sex, i.e. a woman or girl feels she is female and a man or boy feels he is male, but in a few people their gender identity and their sex do not match, and this can cause problems.

Gender Identity Issues vary considerably, some may be transient in nature, and some may not. They may arise when a child exhibits cross-gender behaviour to some degree or other. Some may be boys who prefer to take the female role or vice versa; others may have a compulsion to play with toys mostly used by the other sex (for instance, a boy who predominantly plays with dolls or a girl who always plays with action men and 'army toys'). Some children may only feel comfortable when playing with peers of the other physical sex, or may cross-dress from time to time.

Some children may be unhappy about their own biological sex and either wish to belong to the other one, or feel that they actually do; some adolescents may experience a crisis over a problem of gender identity or sexual orientation, or both. These situations can lead to considerable concern and distress for all those involved.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm

2012
For example, your daughter may say that she wants to be a boy, or your son may identify himself as a girl. Or perhaps you are worried about your child's cross gender behaviour, but they won't discuss it with you, and instead are isolated and withdrawn.

Or it may be you, as a young person, and you feel that your body is wrong, and that you should have been a girl if you were born a boy, or a boy if you were born a girl.
(Added to 2010 description)
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria

They seem to have removed their page about gender dysphoria sometime after 2016. However, we can glean some information about how to diagnose children from their parent testimonials

2019
"Kelly"
“From the age of two we started to notice that Evie didn’t quite fit in. I thought that my son was going to be gay, but it became apparent that there was something more than that.

“Evie always wanted to play with dolls, and never had any interest in traditional boys toys, like cars or dinosaurs. We had an older son and the two could not have been more different.

“Evie loved bracelets and constantly wanted to wear one, and when I bought the children Guess Who? to play she unclipped all the female faces and put them in a handbag to carry around with her.

“Evie would look longingly at other little girls who were wearing dresses or skirts, and every time I picked her up from the childminder she would be have raided the dressing up box for a princess costume. She would come to the door to meet me in a sparkly pink dress and a tiara with a big smile on her face.

“At other children’s houses she would love putting on the princess outfits, and would have a meltdown when she had to take them off as it was time to leave.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

"Denise"
“We didn’t notice Sally having any particular problems or issues as she was growing up, but her primary school was very small and the classes were mixed together in infants, so there was no real distinction between boys and girls or age groups.

“But looking back I can see there were pointers. Sally always wanted to play with the dressing up box, and she always wanted to be a princess. She always wanted long hair too.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
merrymouse · 25/09/2020 10:37

But for some people, looks can be deceiving and they’re given the wrong gender.

Nobody is officially given a gender - wrong or right.

This is bobbins.

merrymouse · 25/09/2020 10:30

‘Removal of the sterilisation clause is key’ ????

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/09/2020 10:28

Even their current page uses the "wrong body" narrative (packed as right body, wrong gender)

When you are born, it’s decided whether you’re a boy or a girl, based on the way your body looks. But for some people, looks can be deceiving and they’re given the wrong gender.
mermaidsuk.org.uk/young-people/

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/09/2020 10:21

Here’s another fun list from mermaids (since removed, I believe) of “signs your child may be trans”

Remarkably similar to this twitter.com/Mermaids_Gender/status/1116689347342942208?s=19 ( archive.li/tBBdg )

Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.
OP posts:
Clymene · 25/09/2020 10:13

Here are some of Susie's tweets:

  1. Applauding a trans surgeon for saying gender affirmation surgery should not be based on age
  2. Saying that 4 young people committed suicide because of gender distress. There has never been any evidence presented for this assertion (which was also used by Helen Belcher in Belcher's failed attempt to smear Janice Turner)
  3. Saying that she thought Jackie might be gay at the age of 2 because they liked girls' toys and her other sons didn't.
Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.
Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.
Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.
SophocIestheFox · 25/09/2020 10:02

Here’s another fun list from mermaids (since removed, I believe) of “signs your child may be trans”.

To me, it looks more like a list of “signs your child may be depressed, autistic, being abused or bullied, may grow up to be gay or lesbian, or possibly none of the above”.

I’ve always been baffled by the low expectations of Mermaids supporters. Demand better of them, for goodness sake!! Better than emotional manipulation,data breaches, safeguarding breaches, pseudo-science, and all the rest.

Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.
Whatwouldscullydo · 25/09/2020 10:00

Can people see it? Or will the woke blindly follow them, regardless of the facts?

Most see it. I honestly believe that a large number if their followers aren't in it to support trans kids . They don't believe any of it. I honestly think its a game. Go along with it, with the sole intention of seeing just what they can get them to do and what the sense of confidence having these people give them will make them do next. They get enjoyment from watching the overreach and the inevitable fall from grace having helped make it happen.

queenofknives · 25/09/2020 09:56

Are they going to get away with this? They seem to be getting support for their version of history in which they never said anything about 'being born in the wrong body' or clothes or toys, and t*rfs are the ones re-writing history. I know they always do this DARVO thing but come on. Are they really going to get away with it this time? The evidence is all there. Can people see it? Or will the woke blindly follow them, regardless of the facts?

OldCrone · 25/09/2020 09:53

Mermaids now saying that it's not about stereotypes and it's not about being 'born in the wrong body', so how would you identify a 'trans child'? Are they now saying that no child can be 'trans'?

nauticant · 25/09/2020 09:52

To be honest I'm now totally confused as to what being trans actually is!

As more of the pseudo-science gets abandoned the definition will need to become more circular and more tightly so. At the moment it seems to be heading towards "a trans person is someone who has a trans identity".

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/09/2020 09:44

It's not a medical issue but it needs umpteen operations and lifelong hormone treatment to put right. Hmm

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 25/09/2020 09:41

A few things stood out for me (in addition to those awful stereotypes).

“It is not a psychiatric issue” - but at the same time they are worried about suicide for and 8 year old. How contradictory is that?

The little child saying they were both boy and girl and the parents in the same breath saying that the child could be what they wanted and that “she a was their girl for now” (born a boy). And the child was living in an all-pink stereotypical “girl room” that I wouldn’t put any of my girls in, even under threat of bodily harm. Parental influence much?

OldCrone · 25/09/2020 09:33

@DickKerrLadies

It really shows the homophobia that appears to be rampant within the TRA community.

I wonder what exactly Mr Green was worried about when his child was playing with dolls?

Some clinicians at the Tavistock think that homophobic parents are playing a large part in the increase in 'trans' children.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-feels-like-conversion-therapy-for-gay-children-say-clinicians-pvsckdvq2

SophocIestheFox · 25/09/2020 09:32

I wonder what Cassie and Tom are up to these days? Wonder if Tom persisted?

iguanadonna · 25/09/2020 09:27

Thanks!

WOW that article is a useful answer to anyone who tries to say that this isn't about (very sexist) gender stereotypes

DickKerrLadies · 25/09/2020 09:26

It really shows the homophobia that appears to be rampant within the TRA community.

I wonder what exactly Mr Green was worried about when his child was playing with dolls?

Whatwouldscullydo · 25/09/2020 09:25

To be honest I'm now totally confused as to what being trans actually is!

It leaves 3 possibilities as to what it can be. But ill be deleted for saying them.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/09/2020 09:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes a deleted post.

OldCrone · 25/09/2020 09:24

It's still there, iguanadonna, but the link doesn't work. This one should work.

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/12/transgender-children-have-to-respect-who-he-is

Whatwouldscullydo · 25/09/2020 09:24

Aaah yes I remember now.

There was alot of money in this stuff back then.

Amazes me how peoplw never pay fir things like phone insurance or engine flushes as they see it as being ripped off. As people taking more money from them than is necessary. Yet will do things line this where they don't make the link to the financial gain

HPFA · 25/09/2020 09:23

@Whatwouldscullydo

They learned a lot about gender dysphoria from Mermaids. The whole family has taken part in the organisation’s residential get-togethers, where families meet and share information

Thing is gender dysphoria is no longer a requirement to be trans so I really cannot understand why such emphasis is placed on distress whilst they simultaneously believe that no dx is even needed.

To be honest I'm now totally confused as to what being trans actually is!

If this "gender identity" is not feeling that your body ought to be a woman's and it's not "conforming to gender stereotypes" then what is it? Why is it called "woman"? Why could it not equally be called something else?

RoyalCorgi · 25/09/2020 09:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/09/2020 09:22

@iguanadonna

That Guardian link which FindTheTruth posted above - it's gone!! Was it there earlier? Is the Guardian trying to cover its tracks too?
Link mistyped, try this

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/12/transgender-children-have-to-respect-who-he-is

Archived here just in case archive.li/7owzG

OP posts:
NecessaryScene1 · 25/09/2020 09:21

@iguanadonna

That Guardian link which FindTheTruth posted above - it's gone!! Was it there earlier? Is the Guardian trying to cover its tracks too?
Bad link. Here it is:

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/12/transgender-children-have-to-respect-who-he-is

and archive: archive.is/7owzG

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/09/2020 09:20

I haven't gone back and checked the TED talk and the many media articles, but as I recall in the mid 2000s when Jackie was about 12 SG found that a doctor in New York (Norman Spack is the name, I think) would prescribe puberty blockers and cross-hormones to under 16s. She took Jackie over there for a consultation, he wrote the prescription, she bought the drugs, don't know how but she was paying. The NHS wouldn't have done that then. Shamefully, they will now.