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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mermaids and the evolving understanding of gender identity.

313 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/09/2020 20:11

Given recent events, I thought it would be interesting to trawl the Wayback Machine and see how the organisation has developed over time with regards to diagnosing children as transgender.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

2009
Gender Identity Disorders in infancy, childhood and adolescence are complex and have varied causes: in the majority of cases the eventual outcome will be homosexuality or bisexuality, but often there will be a heterosexual outcome as some gender issues can be caused by a bereavement, a dysfunctional family life, or (rarely) by abuse. Only a small proportion of cases will result in a transsexual outcome
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html

2010
Gender dyphoria, also known as Gender Identity Disorder, applies to someone who is unhappy with their biological sex and who wishes to belong to the other one.

Gender Identity is the sense of belief that "I am male" or "I am female". A child becomes aware of its gender identity before or around the age of five years, in many cases as early as 2 or 3 years of age. In most people their gender identity is the same as their sex, i.e. a woman or girl feels she is female and a man or boy feels he is male, but in a few people their gender identity and their sex do not match, and this can cause problems.

Gender Identity Issues vary considerably, some may be transient in nature, and some may not. They may arise when a child exhibits cross-gender behaviour to some degree or other. Some may be boys who prefer to take the female role or vice versa; others may have a compulsion to play with toys mostly used by the other sex (for instance, a boy who predominantly plays with dolls or a girl who always plays with action men and 'army toys'). Some children may only feel comfortable when playing with peers of the other physical sex, or may cross-dress from time to time.

Some children may be unhappy about their own biological sex and either wish to belong to the other one, or feel that they actually do; some adolescents may experience a crisis over a problem of gender identity or sexual orientation, or both. These situations can lead to considerable concern and distress for all those involved.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20100718215911/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/New%20Mermaids/whatisgid.htm

2012
For example, your daughter may say that she wants to be a boy, or your son may identify himself as a girl. Or perhaps you are worried about your child's cross gender behaviour, but they won't discuss it with you, and instead are isolated and withdrawn.

Or it may be you, as a young person, and you feel that your body is wrong, and that you should have been a girl if you were born a boy, or a boy if you were born a girl.
(Added to 2010 description)
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20121109215055/mermaidsuk.org.uk/index.php/what-is-gender-dysphoria

They seem to have removed their page about gender dysphoria sometime after 2016. However, we can glean some information about how to diagnose children from their parent testimonials

2019
"Kelly"
“From the age of two we started to notice that Evie didn’t quite fit in. I thought that my son was going to be gay, but it became apparent that there was something more than that.

“Evie always wanted to play with dolls, and never had any interest in traditional boys toys, like cars or dinosaurs. We had an older son and the two could not have been more different.

“Evie loved bracelets and constantly wanted to wear one, and when I bought the children Guess Who? to play she unclipped all the female faces and put them in a handbag to carry around with her.

“Evie would look longingly at other little girls who were wearing dresses or skirts, and every time I picked her up from the childminder she would be have raided the dressing up box for a princess costume. She would come to the door to meet me in a sparkly pink dress and a tiara with a big smile on her face.

“At other children’s houses she would love putting on the princess outfits, and would have a meltdown when she had to take them off as it was time to leave.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

"Denise"
“We didn’t notice Sally having any particular problems or issues as she was growing up, but her primary school was very small and the classes were mixed together in infants, so there was no real distinction between boys and girls or age groups.

“But looking back I can see there were pointers. Sally always wanted to play with the dressing up box, and she always wanted to be a princess. She always wanted long hair too.
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190301090129/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-voices.html

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midclegs101 · 07/10/2020 22:37

@Whatwouldscullydo

I would like to know too. This is extraordinary. But the Tavistock are NHS and were doing all sorts so I’m not sure what to think

If they have admitted to not following best practice this should be national news shouldn't it?

Why isn't this bigger.

@Whatwouldscullydo sorry for tagging but in 24 hrs this is an old thread!

A response from the Tavi PR team on (not) using the updated NHS guidance, via an FOI request they refused to answer:

"In a nutshell, the information on the NHS England website is very high level and does not go into anywhere near the level of detail we and our endocrine colleagues do about the effects, potential side-effects, and unknowns around the physical interventions (puberty blocker and cross sex hormones) which young people under 18 are able to access. So in effect, the changing of the wording on that website has made no material difference to our practice as we already covered these issues in detail with patients and their parents/carers in our discussions with them and in the information we provide them."

Note the words "no material difference ". As they already provide enough advice.. yeah right.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 06/10/2020 19:21

Interesting suggestion on the TGT twitter thread that the pharmacy that dispenses Webberley's prescription is right by the good doctor's practice.

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/10/2020 19:02

I mean obviously it made the news but I dunno it still seems kinda hidden and would only he understood by those following.

You'd expect immediate emergency closure wouldnt you?

Theres been no mention of contacting patients. No more discussion on the court cases etc

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/10/2020 18:59

I would like to know too. This is extraordinary. But the Tavistock are NHS and were doing all sorts so I’m not sure what to think

If they have admitted to not following best practice this should be national news shouldn't it?

Why isn't this bigger.

Siameasy · 06/10/2020 18:55

*shock

So what does that mean then. Nhs approved treatment is watchful waiting isnt it?

So where will this leave the affirmation model being used and the families already on treatment pathway ?*

I would like to know too. This is extraordinary. But the Tavistock are NHS and were doing all sorts so I’m not sure what to think

FindTheTruth · 06/10/2020 18:31

BBC video clip re Gender GP being mentioned 500 times on Mermaids forum:
twitter.com/PaulPfj/status/1313480810364915712

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/10/2020 11:01
Shock

So what does that mean then. Nhs approved treatment is watchful waiting isnt it?

So where will this leave the affirmation model being used and the families already on treatment pathway ?

HPFA · 06/10/2020 10:43

Even more reverse ferreting:

twitter.com/Transgendertrd/status/1313404664398983174

Escapeplanning · 05/10/2020 09:20

It doesn't claim to "represent the "views". It is the author's observations.

Mumfun · 05/10/2020 08:24

No it misrepresents the views of the 4 it has picked on. That is not a good journalistic piece

CopsCantCatchCriminals · 03/10/2020 21:23

@Escapeplanning

That's a very good piece, I agree with that.

Yep.

Escapeplanning · 03/10/2020 20:25

That's a very good piece, I agree with that.

HPFA · 03/10/2020 19:58

@HPFA

In fairness it should be noted that there are a few rather odd voices turning up on "our" side too.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1309750244947759110

I mean, getting a seat at the table is huge progress - saying that groups are "selling out" by sitting down with Stonewall is basically going to guarantee irrelevance. There is absolutely no possibility that any of the political parties are going to adopt a position of abolishing the GRA.

And just so we give the "other side" a fighting chance at a time when we're finally making headway let's publish a viciously unpleasant piece attacking our trans allies.

twitter.com/UGMediaLtd/status/1312035258343227394

Seriously, does anyone actually get how to "do" politics these days? Insisting on some kind of ideological purity test is one of the best ways to ensure you achieve precisely zilch.

nauticant · 28/09/2020 15:47

It reminds me of the position of some in the Labour Party. The purity of the ideology is paramount. Even if that means being in perpetual opposition and not being able to shape what happens. It's safe and people can enjoy their no-compromise position while changing stuff is left to others.

Siameasy · 28/09/2020 15:25

I agree too. Can’t believe some people were against FPFW being there.

Kit19 · 28/09/2020 15:19

I agree - FPFW need to be in the same room as stonewall having the discussion. Refusing to be in the same room with them would achieve nothing.

HPFA · 28/09/2020 15:12

In fairness it should be noted that there are a few rather odd voices turning up on "our" side too.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1309750244947759110

I mean, getting a seat at the table is huge progress - saying that groups are "selling out" by sitting down with Stonewall is basically going to guarantee irrelevance. There is absolutely no possibility that any of the political parties are going to adopt a position of abolishing the GRA.

Nestme · 28/09/2020 12:55

Un B bloody believable. I take it their lawyers have pointed out the personal liability coming their way when they start losing cases. How does anyone at Mermaids sleep at night?

And all this cos someone was married to some homophobic arsehole and was too afraid to stand up to him.

Datun · 28/09/2020 12:50

It's all too little, too late. And too mad.

Let mermaids and Stonewall set themselves up as gender critical trainers in schools.

They don't have any material.

nauticant · 28/09/2020 12:41

Anyway, @KatyMontgomerie operates on social media as a troll. Worth doing an Internet search to find out places that have more information about them but otherwise best ignored.

nauticant · 28/09/2020 12:37

@Nestme, this is the key post:

twitter.com/Mermaids_Gender/status/1309192315467116547

highame · 28/09/2020 11:45

Gardenbird Keira does have another case I think or perhaps she is a witness. Getting confused but her page on Crowd Justice is not showing the second case and only shows the one that is on hold pending the review.

When I saw her page, there was a link to an article about 'no such things as being born in the wrong body' written last September, so no one can say it wasn't being used as a serious term quillette.com/2019/09/24/no-one-is-born-in-the-wrong-body

ButcherManWasSomeLady · 28/09/2020 10:12

Ah, yes, thank you both. And yes the link did work.

madamsapple · 28/09/2020 10:09

When I followed that link I was told:

"This is not available to you."

What is it I'm not allowed to see? Anyone?

Just try it again - worked second time for me.

TyroBurningDownTheCloset · 28/09/2020 10:05

See the italics in my post right above yours, Butcher.

In response someone's highlighted the tweeter's bio, which states "I was literally born in the wrong body." Which looks rather like an assertion of the existence of sexed souls.