Nude Family swim at Stoke Waterworld

I’m so glad this thread is here, I hope it’s shining a light on something rarely talked about.

Personally I feel enormously validated in the responses to the discomfort I felt (though I’m starting to realise the extent to which it’s affected me).

There’s no justification. This is a very concerning practice, hiding in plain sight

From the pro-Naturist document quoted above:

It was unable to find a causal relationship between pornography and harm. Conversely the connection between prudery and harm is well established.

What utter nonsense.

You do know about DBS checks, and that in schools no-one is allowed to be alone with a child and not visible to others?

You do know that any organisation that deals with children has similar rules precisely because we know abusers are attracted to anywhere children are? It hasn't stopped the scandals, but the dangers are definitely acknowledged.

Football isn't potentially a violation of privacy and dignity in and of itself, though. No one here thinks safeguarding shouldn't exist in football, and if processes aren't adequate they should be changed.

Yes - it's a safeguarding policy. It shows there's a risk which is acknowledged and guarded against.

It's a shame that organisations where children are allowed to be unchaperoned with adults are not so candid about the statistically far greater risks that exist.

Perhaps then things like the football abuse scandal wouldn't have happened.

It's extremely disingenuous, going to gotcha arguments every time rather than engaging with concerns.

And from my experience of arguing with others on social media, it's an indication that the person doesn't actually have a reasonable argument, or a response to the point you've raised which engages with it in good faith.

Agree the justifications are fascinating, and have parallels with alternative sexual practices.

The ‘body positivity’ line is an excellent example of gaslighting, as exposure against your will has the exact opposite effect.

Some posters here seem to see parents telling their children they have to participate in stripping off in front of other people as analogous to having a flu vaccination.

It's extremely disingenuous, going to gotcha arguments every time rather than engaging with concerns.

Some adults enjoy being around naked children and, don’t forget, humiliated teenagers (having to hide their discomfort while their boundaries are ripped down).

Completely agree. It's wrong to create an environment that this can flourish.

Disneyland was mentioned as an activity that is unnecessary - not an activity that is harmful.

To return to my (imperfect) analogy, not only can under 16s not give informed consent to sex, but their parents cannot do so for them. The hypothetical 30 year old who had sex with a 15 year old that I mentioned earlier would have no defence from saying 'their parents knew and were fine with it and actually encouraged it because they thought it would be healthy / fun / character building for said 15 yo'. In fact that would make it a whole lot worse, because the young person has to give consent themselves - no one can do so on their behalf.

Some posters here seem to see parents telling their children they have to participate in stripping off in front of other people as analogous to having a flu vaccination. They might not like it but it'll be good for them. I personally think it's much closer to - though not exactly identical to - the consent to sex scenario.

Some of this rhetoric reminds me of when people talk about the BDSM "community" and "lifestyle" and how accepting, respectful, consent oriented and liberating it is etc etc etc. I would hope we all recognise that it would be inappropriate to play out those dynamics in front of children, but I'm quite sure it happens, and that people justify it.

I’ve seen one “benefit” of naturism written here - that children see real bodies, which is nonsense because they see that on any beach or swimming pool.

That’s the official line.

It’s covering up a very disturbing truth.

Some adults enjoy being around naked children and, don’t forget, humiliated teenagers (having to hide their discomfort while their boundaries are ripped down).

It’s not a perfect world, and there are those who get great enjoyment from sexually humiliating children. Taking them to these places is a more exciting forum to continue the abuse.

We can’t stop all the abuse that goes on in families but we can stop if being played out legally in public

Actually you did say exactly that. I suggest you read back your own posts.

If that's the case, please use the helpful Mumsnet quote feature to quote me saying 'it's fine for parents to bully, intimidate or coerce their children to be naked in public in front of strangers because some other people are cool with it'.

I’m not going to attempt to justify anything, that would not be helpful or respectful to you.

We've all read the thread. You have done. Multiple times.