Nude Family swim at Stoke Waterworld

@Handsoffisback your posts contained several direct insults, as well as telling Ster she was a bad parent and social services needed informing. You swore at her on at least one occasion.

Since I am the one who reported, I have records of the posts in the emails from MNHQ.

You were not just pointing out facts.

You were being thoroughly nasty.

Ster - how old are your DC? I think that will make a big difference here, you talk about friends as ‘our friends’. Having older DC myself they go on to make their own friends, this is where the problem will lie.

@ButcherManWasSomeLady there were several posts in quick succession attacking @SterFran00 and her parenting. They were blatantly vicious.

@Handsoffisback there is only one person behaving disgracefully on this thread and it isn't Ster.

@Bonkersblond

I want to thank you for sharing your story. It must have been incredibly difficult and I acknowledge how incredibly painful it was, and is, for you.

I stand by what I said in my previous post - it was unacceptable and it shouldn’t have happened.

I’m conscious that it was a very personal story and it may have brought up a lot of emotions for you. I urge you to look after yourself today and seek support form a trusted friend or family member if you need it.

The reason for my previous post was to acknowledge your deeply personal sharing - I didn’t want to shy away from it, I want you to know that I hear you. These are complex discussions and your story forms part of it and I wanted you to know that.

I’m saddened that your experience of naturism is a deeply painful one.

I hope I have also sensitively tried to convey that our experience has been very different, almost by way of reassurance. Just as an example, my children talk about naturism with their friends - it is not a source of embarrassment, it is not a secret - it is something all our friends know about and one we discuss if it arises.

Conversing by text and not conversation will always be fraught with ‘lost in translation’ situations.

I hope you can sense the sincerity in my words and that your story has not gone unheard by me. It will be a source of reflection for me and I thank you again for having the courage to share it.

It’s simply not the case that:

Children always know when their boundaries are being crossed.
Children can speak up even if they do know.
Parents are going to change their entire holiday plans based on the discomfort of one child.

It's not that hard to imagine that paedos & pervs would love to hang out at a naturist event. I think the naturist parents on this thread are being wilfully ignorant. Reminds me of that saying about open minds & brains falling out.

It's really fucking annoying when you miss posts by a few minutes and can't read them.

I want to know what was said.

Please PM me if you know - just the gist will do.

My dad and step mum had no lovely lifestyle beliefs about the beauty of nature etc. I believe they just enjoyed the exhibitionism of it. They inflicted it on dsis and I simply because they wanted to.

Children’s boundaries and dignity just aren’t a consideration for many parents.

Anyone saying it’s fine, who wasn’t subjected to it as a child or teenager doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

Society needs to step in with laws making it adult only

Ster my parents had your beliefs, please listen or are you going to wait until your DC become a subject of ridicule because one day they opened up to their school friends about how they spend their time or suffer as an adult later on in life dealing with their childhood? You have really given me something else to think about that my parents didn’t think they were doing anything wrong, maybe me knowing this has helped me not think less of them, despite what I was subjected to, they were my parents, I loved them but I do question their actions in my childhood.

I think our anger and outrage should lie at the feet of every single man who has ever thought it is within his rights to violate a child or woman in any way whatsoever.

I think our awareness should turn to those situations where parents, for whatever reason, were unable to protect their children and use that to inform us in our own lives.

I believe we, as parents, should be aiming to raise girls who have full bodily and emotional autonomy and boys who grow into men who would not only respect that, but protect it fiercely on behalf of all women.

And, importantly, lifestyles and belief systems and personal choices about how people choose to interact with the world are not regarded as contributors to unacceptable behaviour.

Cutting out naturism will not solve paedophilia.

Implying that simply being nude within a naturist environment is inviting sexual harm is not a helpful message. It is dangerous. We need a world where we do not attempt to modify behaviour of potential victims in order to solve a complex condition and one which the deviancy lies firmly with the perpetrator not the victim.

It is my view that naturism done right by those who fully understand it contributes to raising hugely respectful adults with healthy attitudes towards themselves and others.

And that all naturists have a responsibility to act if they see anywhere where that high standard is not being met.

There are stories here where naturism fell below the high standard it should be. And children were not given the protection and safety they should always have from those around them and those closest to them. That is not acceptable. Those stories are real, they are sad, they are valid. They are acknowledged. I hear you.

And I want to reassure you - this is not the naturism I have would ever accept anywhere. Our family have experienced fully and consistently how naturism should be. I would never accept anything less, for myself, and for the safety of all those around me.

Discussions around consent and authoritarian parenting are also hugely important.

But we cannot assume that a whole lifestyle choice also correlates to a set of parenting behaviours (ie forcing children against their will) is inherent to that lifestyle.

Parenting is highly complex, unique to individuals and their circumstances and personal histories, and varies hugely across the entire cross section of families in the UK and further afield.

Again, we cannot attempt to limit people’s lifestyle choices on the back of concerns that may or may not be founded, about how parents may or may not be parenting their children.

Most of here are parents. All of us have the express desire to protect children at all costs. We are coming from the exact same place, but just because we don’t all do things the same way doesn’t mean our core value in that respect is any different.

We are a better force together, than if we allow divisions and misconceptions to weaken us.

@FireUnderTheHand, your most recent post is spot on, @Handsoffisback and others in defence of children being subjected to ‘Naturism’ , thank you for speaking up for them, I really didn’t think this was still a thing now, my parents are long deceased, they will never realise the trauma caused, I have dealt with this on my own along with some counselling, I know they were wrong, it’s my secret, not even DH knows, I’m still deeply embarrassed, this thread has helped me deal with it a little bit more, I’m not a prude, within our family unit we have never hidden our bodies with our DC, completely respected DC as they became more conscious of their changing bodies, I hope I have given my DC the normal childhood they deserve, carefree days at the beach, on holidays with swimsuits on, something to talk excitedly with their friends about, places they can talk about and last of all not feel like they have some secret to hide. Thanks to all that have stood up in defence 💐

RTFT now; fire your words are so painfully important. I hope they're read and understood by many.

I've taken children swimming for school lessons for many years.

I can barely think of a year where we weren't aware of and had to report some bloke for suspiciously hanging around and timing swims/ changing in the mixed area at the same time. (Always too many children to stick to the group changing rooms alone.)

Those posting in defense of the naturist community are seemingly dismissive of children's innate inability to autonomously create and/or enforce personal boundaries (even when expressly taught in many instances e.g. 'stranger danger') due to navigating the world with fresh eyes/ears/minds with almost zero context. A real concern is that silent compliance (or even somewhat reserved vocal noncompliance) taken as equal to consent by many parents about different issues (e.g. forced affection with family 'hug grandma!', 'kiss uncle Joe', 'sit on grandpa's lap for a photo' after a child has expressed discomfort in any way) can seem ridiculously benign to a parent but may have an enormous psychological impact on a child's developing mind. Pairing the above with a child's potential discomfort in saying no to the adults they trust to keep them safe (don't want to disappoint, fear of being 'in trouble', don't want to hurt parent's/grandparent's/etc. feelings et al) can all lead to blurred boundaries as we mature from children to young adults and beyond.

Many survivors of CSA can explain when their first personal (often unspoken) boundary was nuked and it isn't necessarily something that adults would see as suspect. For me it was forced affection - which was bizarre as I was an incredibly extroverted, open, and affectionate little girl. Loving everyone was easy and comfortable - I would hug and kiss strangers that reached out to me because I wanted to (really distressed my mom and dad), but the first time I remember being forced to be affectionate obliterated that naturally open and affectionate personality. Because of my natural behavior the 'coerced' affection seemed benign to the adults in the situation as they assumed I was 'in a mood' and would have been affectionate otherwise. They were wrong - this person made my skin crawl and while they did nothing to me the feeling stayed with me. The feeling of his lips partially against mine/my cheek - his beard scratching my nose and chin were unbearable (I dramatically recoiled giggling uncomfortably) and was teased about my reaction without a thought of why I recoiled or why I freaked out and threw a fit when they later placed me on his lap (totally out of character for me). I had been emotionally violated and to most people it would appear to be completely benign, but I knew I knew there was something awry even though I couldn't comprehend or express it. Suddenly my feelings of discomfort (when occurring) were internally rationalized to be irrelevant and I began to conceptualize affection as purely performative. In my little mind I had been 'doing it wrong' as affection was obviously about pleasing other people and not about you and your feelings of wanting to convey love/appreciation/gratitude. Such a simple and seemingly benign interaction completely turned my world upside down - when a truly horrific and traumatic act took place I was unable to express it. Again I knew viscerally and physically it wasn’t right but couldn’t figure out why/how. I knew I hurt and was very sad. However, based on my inability to properly deconstruct the event I concluded that my duty was to not complain because his feelings were paramount and my discomfort was wrong and shameful.

For me, that is enough to keep children away from these scenarios i.e. nudity with strangers. Children even when they feel safe don't necessarily know how to communicate their feelings/experiences. These are complex concepts - boundaries and consent. They are not something we are born knowing and even when taught can misunderstand or misinterpret their meanings when exposed to new information and experiences (positive or negative). When a damaging concept is solidified not necessarily by any fault of the parent(s) children begin to see certain information and experiences through that damaged lens. Putting them in situations where that simple barrier - clothing - is removed can distort their perception of boundaries regardless of the appearance of concreteness. Their plasticity is fascinating and beautiful but so easily influenced.

The examples given by other posters of teachers, nurses, etc being unsupervised with children - these adults even if in the presence of a disrobed child (injury, difficulty getting dressed after a self-soiling, etc) are not naked with the nude child and if they are found to be it is fairly asserted to be predatory/abusive behavior regardless of whether or not there is any physical contact.

I don't think naturists are more likely to be pedophiles than any other person but I don't think giving any potential pedo fodder that includes every inch of your child's body is smart. Bathing suits and gym clothes and cheerleading outfits etc. may not leave much to the imagination but they also don't expose a child's genitals. Swim suits aren't comparable to nudity unless the child is wearing an adult styled swimsuit (bikini with thong or Brazilian bottoms, low-rise speedos, etc) which in itself is a truly disturbing thought as it sexualizes child bodies through attire. Being nude isn't inherently sexual and is a natural state but being nude will be perceived as sexual by perverts and perverts have enough wank fodder without adding in-person nude children being kids having fun to their memory banks.

Due to my personal experiences I always ask a child's permission (regardless of how well known) and after asking the adult/parent (if acquaintance) to hug/pick up/whatever because they deserve to be respected as human beings and not accessories. Many parents are visibly taken aback by my approach the first time and tell me that they have never encountered it before. If a child is pushed in any way to be affectionate I always refuse the coerced contact and say something supportive to the child (to signal their boundaries are paramount and to signal to the parent to leave it be).

I believe most naturists love their children (just like most other parents) and want them to feel safe and feel good in their skin. I believe that most will keep a close eye on their children. But all it takes is a glance away (at your drink at your partner whatever) for a child to be touched/spoken to/looked at in a way (by an adult or even another child that: could have been groomed, could be predatory themselves as a learned behavior... children do recruit other children into abusive situations) that can and probably will have long-term consequences. This potential exposure is unlikely to be reported to an adult as it is confusing for the child - and can made a child feel ashamed and guilty.