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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pronouns at work - where do I stand? Advice

115 replies

Slurpy · 24/09/2020 07:26

I was all in tizz yesterday, but I've woken up furious this morning.

A couple of weeks ago, an email came round saying a sub-group was inviting us to add pronouns to our display name (not even signature) but that it was supported by management, but not mandated. A few people did it, fine.

Yesterday I sat through two meeting where we were asked to have a real think about it, that it would be great if we all chose to do it... support trans colleagues, make it easier for people unfamiliar with our names to refer to us properly.

It's being presented as a neutral thing to do, the kind thing to do, a supportive thing to do. There seems to be no recognition that there might be another viewpoint on this.

I don't want to do it. But the strong (but not mandated) position is going to mark me out as pRoBLemAtic and I'm not happy about that either.

The timing was super insensitive, with Self ID on the table and certain hashtags trending.

Has anyone fought this off?

OP posts:
IrenetheQuaint · 24/09/2020 08:13

I've always been tempted to declare my pronouns as "she/him", just to fry people's minds.

merrymouse · 24/09/2020 08:11

Presumably if the person sending the email has an obviously woman's name like Sarah, lack of stated pronouns on the email isn't going to have any noticeable impact in terms of unconscious bias?

It underlines sex/gender when it should be irrelevant.

Not just "Here is an email from Sarah", but "Here is an email from Sarah the woman who identifies as she/her!!!".

beargrass · 24/09/2020 08:11

Do you have a data protection officer? Because this kind of information could be personal and special data. And if it's being sent all over the place (eg new people get copied in, then it gets forwarded), there's no control over who is processing your data. You're also then having to process other people's data.

NewlyGranny · 24/09/2020 08:10

If push comes to shove and you are being coerced, you could just shrug and go with male pronouns and a gender-neutral or masculine version of your given name. Explain that female pronouns and name can result in harassment from misogynistic clients so you have the companies best interests at heart as well as your own safety.

Be ready to count the number of times you are subsequently misgendered and dead-named in emails and meetings. If all bullied female employees resorted to this tactic, demands for pronouns in bios would quickly disappear.

Let the woke be hoist with their own petard. Let them beware of what they want for fear of getting it.

NecessaryScene1 · 24/09/2020 08:10

I'd find it very hard to resist giving opposite sex pronouns just to watch and see how many people go along with it.

And say absolutely nothing else about it, and change nothing else about yourself. Just the pronoun answer.

And reverse the answer weekly.

Dare them to be transphobic and question your identity in any way. Make /them/ squirm.

merrymouse · 24/09/2020 08:09

can't remember the last time a female colleague was referred to as Mrs in work or out!

I thought about this because I was applying for access to something yesterday (work related) and had to choose. I assume its because they want to maintain a level of formality if they contact me, but I still felt that I was forced to make a choice and reveal something too personal - even 'Ms' isn't as neutral as 'Mr'.

The irony is that the GRA 2004 was introduced to protect the right to privacy.

AntsInPenzance · 24/09/2020 08:08

@BoobsOnTheMoon

I think I would point out the evidence that when women sign off work emails with a name that makes it clear they are female, they get less positive responses than when they use a man's name! I'll try and find the stuff about it. I'd say that I prefer to keep my gender and pronouns off my work emails in order to avoid unconscious bias on the part of recipients.
Presumably if the person sending the email has an obviously woman's name like Sarah, lack of stated pronouns on the email isn't going to have any noticeable impact in terms of unconscious bias?
Smallsteps88 · 24/09/2020 08:05

Tell them they’re putting some trans people in a very awkward position by pressuring them to publicly disclose their gender identity when many of them won’t be able or ready to. Don’t confirm or deny whether you are one of those people. You don’t have to.

Sparklfairy · 24/09/2020 08:04

Years ago I used to work in customer service. Because of the area of London we were in there was a high proportion of staff that were Indian, and they would get racial abuse where customers assumed they were calling India. My male colleague asked that his email and display was changed to a generic-type "English" name, and used this name when he answered calls as he was sick of the harassment. It disappeared overnight.

My point is unconscious bias is a definite "thing" and the link by a pp of a man's experience of this is perfect.

Timeforabiscuit · 24/09/2020 08:04

MerryMouse has a really good point - can't remember the last time a female colleague was referred to as Mrs in work or out!

yellowmaoampinball · 24/09/2020 08:02

Its bonkers this coercion to get women to declare their sex. I've applied for a number of civil service jobs and they all ask you to leave any information off that might idenfity you race, religion, age and sex. They are clearly acknowledging that there could be a bias when recruiting if they didn't. So how do we get to the point that some companies are now trying to force women into declaring their sex??

merrymouse · 24/09/2020 08:01

I like FindtheTruth's reply.

It's bad enough having to choose between Miss/Mrs/Ms without having to add pronouns.

OP, this sub-group are just plain wrong and have not thought this through.

It's not fair to force anyone to declare a gender identity, whether that is because they know they would face discrimination because of it, or because they are unsure of their gender identity or because they don't want to be outed.

CasuallyMasculine · 24/09/2020 08:01

These are all brilliant answers. I’m unlikely to be asked as I’m semi-retired now but when I was asked at a conference full of strangers, I just told them I’m not bothered by how people refer to me in my absence so they can use whatever pronouns they want.

I much prefer the focus on harassment and coercion though.

Slurpy · 24/09/2020 07:57

Brilliant, thanks all. Will deflect with some form of the above, and will look into the Yogyakarta principles, if I need to invoke that line.

Appreciate all the advice. I'm a bit less furious now.

OP posts:
drspouse · 24/09/2020 07:54

"It's outing to trans people who are not ready to go public with their transition."

IrenetheQuaint · 24/09/2020 07:54

@RHOBHfan

“Being repeatedly asked about this is in contravention if principle 6 of the Yogyakarta Principles and I’d therefore appreciate if you’d desist”

The Yogyakarta Principles is a document about human rights in the areas of sexual orientation and gender identity, published as the outcome of an international meeting of human rights groups in Yogyakarta, Indonesia, in November 2006.

Principle 6 specifically talks about right to privacy in this regard.

I think this is what I would do. If pushed I would make some cryptic comments about my own situation, perhaps (it pushed) saying that my gender identity was agender/non-binary but I wasn't ready to come out at work.

If really annoyed, I might ask them if they thought it was appropriate to ask people to include their sexual identity in their email signature, and, if not, then why their gender identity?

FindTheTruth · 24/09/2020 07:53

"I will happily use colleagues declared pronouns. I've chosen not to add pronouns to my display name and ask that you respect that and not pressure me into using them or treat me differently for not using them."

sanluca · 24/09/2020 07:52

I am agender, meaning I am comfortable with both masculine and feminine gender traits. To not makenit hard for people I am fine if people use the pronouns of my sex.

ScrapThatThen · 24/09/2020 07:52

'I was keen on this voluntary initiative but I am unhappy with the pressure being applied which implies that not adding pronouns will be seen negatively - there are lots of reasons someone might have to not choose to do so and I dislike them feeling compelled or under pressure. Therefore respectfully I am going to decline.'

PurpleHoodie · 24/09/2020 07:49

My pronouns are sexed based like my oppression"

"I'm finding this triggering. I'm not ready to discuss this"

"It's very insensitive to insist on this"

"I am female"

"Pronoun - Dr"

"There is real unconscious bias against females. It's just not on - this coercion."

"I don't wish to be harassed by service users if they find out I am a woman"

"I don't feel comfortable declaring my pronouns"

"It's triggering"

“Being repeatedly asked about this is in contravention if principle 6 of the Yogyakarta Principles and I’d therefore appreciate if you’d desist”

FindTheTruth Just putting everyone else's replies together in a handy list.

RHOBHfan · 24/09/2020 07:46

@RHOBHfan

“Being repeatedly asked about this is in contravention if principle 6 of the Yogyakarta Principles and I’d therefore appreciate if you’d desist”

The Yogyakarta Principles is a document about human rights in the areas of sexual orientation and gender identity, published as the outcome of an international meeting of human rights groups in Yogyakarta, Indonesia, in November 2006.

Principle 6 specifically talks about right to privacy in this regard.

Principle 6F specifically...
testing987654321 · 24/09/2020 07:46

I don't feel comfortable declaring my pronouns

This.

RHOBHfan · 24/09/2020 07:44

“Being repeatedly asked about this is in contravention if principle 6 of the Yogyakarta Principles and I’d therefore appreciate if you’d desist”

The Yogyakarta Principles is a document about human rights in the areas of sexual orientation and gender identity, published as the outcome of an international meeting of human rights groups in Yogyakarta, Indonesia, in November 2006.

Principle 6 specifically talks about right to privacy in this regard.

FindTheTruth · 24/09/2020 07:44

@PurpleHoodie nice replies! particularly like "It's very insensitive to insist on this"

SerenityNowwwww · 24/09/2020 07:44

They can’t make you surely?