The NHS is run by misogynists, say women forced to give birth alone

'Was it meant to be polite OP? Because on first reading it read to me like it was snarky. Perhaps that wasn’t intentional, and that is the problem with the written word I suppose. But it certainly didn’t convey sympathy for a woman whose husband is facing a life threatening cancer diagnosis, which is a horrible situation for somebody to find himself in regardless of whether you think it is relevant to this thread or not.'

I agree with this. OP, I have sympathy with your argument (although across nine pregnancies, six of which ended in loss, I have been to many, many scans with good and bad outcomes, had ERPCs etc alone and I gave birth to one of my three children alone due to lack of other childcare). But you're being quite abrasive and you've been very belittling and dismissive towards another woman who is clearly going through somethng awful with her husband.

It doesn't matter how much you try to make it a feminist issue it isn't. Some elements affect women, some affect men. It's not targeted at women, women aren't being singled out and yes, sorry op, you're frothing and rude.

Dispatching someone's experience of cancer diagnosis under these restrictions as "man's trouble" (because it was a man but could easily and equally have been a women) is no better than all the dismissal of women that has happened until here. Dont beat em join em is not a philosophy I'm going to sign up to - as a feminist, mother, women or even human.

So why can't health care be a single issue?

Because it isn't a single issue. Healthcare is a huge umbrella, and ranges from mental health care provision, through to someone going into someone's home to change their bandage everyday- and everything in between. To count it all as a single issue doesn't account for the fact that it's actual people involved, encompasses a huge breadth of provision, and the issues etc will vary immensely.

If I had a community nurse visit daily for example, my needs would be very different to someone who has just been sectioned. What provision would you say was fair? If the nurse cannot visit me in my home anymore because of the risk, do we then just withdraw medical care from the person has been sectioned too, as it's obviously all the same singular entity? Do we all go without because it's not possible in one area? Of course that could be argued to be the 'fairest' way, but as anyone who has worked in healthcare knows, life isn't fair. And justifying not doing something because of someone else isn't fair either, ie well they aren't allowed visitors we will justify no one else being allowed them either by saying they would be annoyed.

If people are concerned about other areas which is understandable, why not start a discussion about it? Engage your MP?

So it's ok to restrict the rights of pregnant and birthing women because other patients have been treated appallingly? No, nobody should be treated appallingly.

What is wrong with you people?! They (you?) can only focus on one thing and the big picture eludes them?

The fact is that people campaign about single issues that they care about, and sometimes those campaigns are powerful precisely because they are focused on a single issue. So why can't health care be a single issue?

Why does every thread about women and/or race have so much whataboutery on it?

I actually needed my DP when I was induced due to the fact the staff refused to listen to me. He noticed it himself that when I said something they didn't listen but when he repeated it they did, so it got to the point where he just went to talk to them. In our case it was a sex and race issue.

When I told my DP about the Covid antenatal policies he was pissed off. He's had lots of shit when it has come to the birth of his children plus knows other people who have, if Covid was going on it would have been far worse.

So it's ok to restrict the rights of pregnant and birthing women because other patients have been treated appallingly?

What is wrong with you people?!

What happened to that woman was wrong. All seriously ill patients should be allowed to have visitors.

But it's actually not relevant to this particular campaign.

As people often say, it's not a race to the bottom FFS.

A woman has recently died, alone, after being in hospital alone and not permitted visitors for months.
During that time, she had numerous procedures, alone. If that same woman had, among all the procedures and scans, had a pregnancy scan, would it be appalling to exclude her husband, just for that single one, out of all others? What it be more, or less, appalling than spending months in hospital without a visitor then dying, alone?
The words 'sense of proportion ' and 'sense of entitlement ' may come to mind.

It's not her campaign as such. She's just joined in. Probably because she's pregnant herself.

She's my MP. I'm really surprised that she is standing up for women here,because in her correspondence with me,it was painfully evident
that she had been thoroughly Stonewalled.
She is due to have a baby in January,so she has a dog in this fight. She's all over local social media trumpeting her campaign,( which I agree with) but I do find it hypocritical.

For women who have had a traumatic birth in the past, particularly if the trauma was mostly or partly due to the way she was treated by a midwife, the support of midwives is absolutely not sufficient.

I would have refused to go into hospital alone, without either my DH or my doula, because although rationally I knew that it was unlikely I would be so unlucky with my midwife second time around, the prospect of having to negotiate with an unknown midwife alone was too anxiety inducing for me.

Being in Labour with a stillbirth is horrific and a woman should be able to have someone of her choosing with her for support.

But having had 2 difficult labours I didn't find my husbands presence essential, I was much more in need of the support the midwives provided and he was tucked away in a corner whilst they got on and did their job.

I appreciate I don't speak for all women (or partners)

Well said leafbeans

Hospitals in Italy were overwhelmed

In one province yes, which was horrific and terrible, but that wasn't across the entire country. Yet we effectively popped the NHS into standby and cut services to the absolute bare minimum across the country, because it's a creaking system that's not far from collapse at the best of times.

I'll just say there are more important issues right now, like actually trying to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed so that women can still give birth with trained staff there to help.

It's a health service. It's function should be to provide healthcare to those who use it, it shouldn't be the responsibility of those who use it to accept sub standard care because it's been woefully underfunded by government. This isn't a criticism of the staff who (most of them) work ridiculously hard in challenging circumstances without access to adequate equipment and enough staff at the best of times, let alone now. But can we not accept this as just the norm because it's not, other healthcare systems are managing to balance covid with routine healthcare needs, we should be angry at the government for it having to be this way. I agree that everyone has made concessions, some more heartbreaking than others in regards to being able to attend appointments and support loved ones etc; but it is a disgrace that women, especially those that are in for a stillbirth etc so have to do so alone. It also doesn't help that maternity services are patchy at the best of times, and that now even though the guidance has changed, many are just sticking with not allowing partners. The real issue is with the government, if there was an effective and quick testing capability then they could test partners and women coming into hospital, again, it's not down to HCPs. Women have been put to the bottom of the pile in regard to a lot of things during this pandemic, as this thread shows though, we are expected to just roll over and accept it.

@CactusForever

drive.google.com/file/d/1LwCyr2pZk24LIGzdPUDM6RYCC_Nss1b-/view

@CactusForever

AnotherEmma posted the link earlier

But not maternity campaign
www.thedouladirectory.com/butnotmaternitycampaign

The list of rules and restrictions for each NHS trust is here:

drive.google.com/file/d/1LwCyr2pZk24LIGzdPUDM6RYCC_Nss1b-/view

Really glad to see this being progressed.

It's horrific what some women have had to endure alone and the long term effects will take their toll both on the individuals wellbeing and on the cost of ongoing nhs services and support.

As we've said before, a society should be judged by how it treats its vulnerable, and birthing women, and their unborn/newborn babies need to be way up high on that list.