The NHS is run by misogynists, say women forced to give birth alone

@Getbettersoon I hope your husband has a positive outcome to his diagnosis.

I got diagnosed with cancer in March and was lucky enough to be able to have someone sat with me.

Treatment I had to do alone due to Covid. I'm a woman though, so I guess that's ok for me to post.

The reply didn't read polite to me either. It read very dismissive and unfeeling tbh.

@longcoffee

I am so sorry to hear that. My condolences.

Well put @yukka

Well, I've given birth, and also had a cancer diagnosis, and I can tell you that the last is in no way comparable with the first. Birth is hard and scary and painful, but you are having the joy of a new child, and labour ends after a relatively short time. A cancer diagnosis is hard and scary, and the biopsies alone are painful, let alone the surgery and chemo and rads... and it goes on for months (years, if you take on board the worry about recurrence, which fades but doesn't end) plus you don't have anything but the prospect of early death, leaving small kids in my case had I been unlucky, waking you through the night.

Which is the crux of the point. If having a partner with you during cancer treatment meant you were more likely to survive or live longer, then the argument is comparable. But sadly it simply isn't the case.

Not all pregnancies end with a joyful live birth. Not all births end with a healthy baby. Not all births end with a healthy mother and sadly though rare, some mothers won't survive at all.

Decisions about drugs, treatment, emergency c sections, undetected complications - all whilst you are stuck as an immobile life support vessel to your unborn child.

Then there's the absence of post natal health checks, breastfeeding support, those crucial baby weigh ins for the first few weeks, general access to advice, support and communication - all stopped overnight.

By what percentage will PND have increased this year when retrospective diagnosis catch up next year?

I'll repeat what other pp's have said - it's proven that birth partners improve outcomes for mother and baby. It is nonsensical for this to be ignored.

The hospital I'm due to give birth in has a delivery suite and a birthing centre available.

I fully understand the lack of partners to scans etc and limited time/visiting to antenatal wards. I don't agree it's fair or kind but when the hospital can justify their actions with lack of space for social distancing in a mixed ward etc then I would be able to accept that if I was on the ward.

In the delivery suite, once patients are moved to the postnatal ward, the birth partners go home as there isn't space for appropriate social distancing on the wards. (This was initially leaving the mother and baby alone until both could be discharged although has at least recently been reviewed to allow visitors for 1 hour a day).

In the birthing centre however, where you never leave the one room you give birth in until discharge, birthing partners are also being sent home after 4 hours from birth with the sole reasoning of "delivery suite birth partners go home so birthing centre partners to home to make it equal".

To me this is basically saying "we absolutely can reasonably allow your partner stay to support you, BUT, we're not going to."

Yes it’s absolutely disgusting.

The removal of NHS for anything other than covid also is.

I would March in the streets if I could.

@Fishypants

It wasn't your fault.

@AnotherEmma

"I've heard of many cases of women progressing very quickly and giving birth on the antenatal ward or being transferred into a private delivery room at the last minute and their partner not making it in time "

That's exactly what happened to me 4 months ago with my induction. Despite numerous pleas to the midwife and complaining about horrendous pain, I was told I would only be examined the next day as the drugs take 24 hrs to work.

After my final plea, I was still not examined by the midwife. DS arrived 20 minutes later and my husband missed the birth.

I felt awful about it for weeks later, blaming myself for not demanding to be examined and kicking up a greater fuss, but then again I was in labour!

@wellbehavedwomen I’m sorry what you’ve gone thorough, however cancer and other traumatic events, and poor health care don’t out trump the issue we are talking about here that some women are having to birth alone and attend antenatal appointments alone.

As previously discussed birth outcomes are generally better when women are supported by a birth partner. Birth trauma is a real thing and effects not only women, but it can also negatively impact their baby, family and their relationships and can leave women traumatised for life. Midwives and other healthcare professionals are also impacted by birth trauma and events they see at work.

Maternity services are also short staffed (more so now due to midwives and other healthcare professionals needing to self isolate, and many midwives are leaving the profession due to burn out and stress). Its a known issue that there is a shortage of midwives across the UK, and whereas healthcare staff were deployed to hospitals to help care for Covid patients and help with staff shortages, this hasn’t happened in maternity as it’s a specialised area and not as easy to redeploy staff.

We simply don’t have the capacity to support all women on a 1-2-1 basis when they are labouring, or give 1-2-1 care whilst women are on the antenatal wards because there’s simply not enough staff, which can also lead to women experiencing issues with poor care that can also cause then to become traumatised and cause poor mental etc. So it’s important that women have a partner to support them throughout labour.

I myself had a cancer diagnosis and was told by the doctor whilst I was alone. My partner had been in earlier that day (I was in hospital at the time awaiting results) but he had to go home as my DD was a baby at the time. Yes that was a traumatic time, it’s been a difficult thing to get over (I suffer from anxiety and depression and it’s had a long term impact on my mental health) however I have sympathy for any person suffering any kind of trauma, so strongly feel that other illnesses and poor care doesn’t out trump the fact that some women are on their own when they labour, and some are still not being allowed to have a partner attend ultrasound scans and antenatal appointments when we can go to the pub and meet friends.

This is a real issue and very much separate to the other issues happening in the NHS.

Well, I've given birth, and also had a cancer diagnosis, and I can tell you that the last is in no way comparable with the first. Birth is hard and scary and painful, but you are having the joy of a new child, and labour ends after a relatively short time. A cancer diagnosis is hard and scary, and the biopsies alone are painful, let alone the surgery and chemo and rads... and it goes on for months (years, if you take on board the worry about recurrence, which fades but doesn't end) plus you don't have anything but the prospect of early death, leaving small kids in my case had I been unlucky, waking you through the night.

@Getbettersoon I so, so hope that your DH does indeed get better soon, and I'm so sorry you were met by that response. I think cancer is harder on the loved ones than it is the patient. All you have to do in treatment is as you're told, endure and be brave. Those who love you have to watch, and be powerless, and fear losing you, and that's worse. It must have been hell, having to send him off alone and wait at home, worrying and not knowing. Same with his treatment plan. I send much love, and I so hope he is like me, and can look forward to many years to come.

My view is almost certainly influenced by my own experiences of giving birth back in the 1970s, when women had little to no choice about their treatment. Because of that, I do feel that the exclusion of birthing partners because of Covid did play into the hands of those who'd prefer that the professionals could just get on with the job without any "civilian" interference.

Women in labour are very vulnerable. A birthing partner may not necessarily be a good advocate for the labouring woman, but is certainly a witness to how that woman is being treated. I'm not convinced that those misogynist attitudes of 40 years ago have yet disappeared.

So, yes, I do see this as a feminist issue.

This point has been made by a couple of PPs, but I think it is worth making again: the presence of a birth partner can actually contribute to a positive outcome of the birth itself i.e. it can help the birth go better.

So, yes, while every patient would ideally have someone with them for difficult treatments or to receive bad news, I'm not sure you would say that the absence of someone there actually affects the outcome of the illness? It's different with birthing partners.

(I say that as someone who had a very distressing labour, and my husband wasn't allowed with me until I was already in bits. Everyone was fine in the end, but there were complications that I think were avoidable had I not been in such a state.)

[quote Leafbeans]@Bufferingkisses why not start your own discussion about other departments then? No one is saying it's worse than others as it's not a competition, but this discussion is about maternity services, and not people dismissing it because other people are also suffering. I could understand referring to things such as well in perspective others have experienced x, y and z and that's important to consider; but not to keep trying shut it down because of that.[/quote]
Yep fair point. I took issue with the rude dismissal of PP and dismissed the op because of it. There may be valid things to discuss here, I'm tired of seeing frothing about the NHS and particularly fed up of seeing people get away with disgusting rudeness in the name of feminism. However you're right, I was shutting down a conversation and that's not ok.

@Leafbeans I believe a lot of hospitals stopped providing home birth services as well (and think some still haven’t resumed) which removes that really basic right that women are the ones making a choice to come into a hospital and use the services there.

A lot of hospitals also stopped allowing water births at the beginning when they were unsure whether or not it could increase risk of transmission (although no evidence). Not sure if this is ongoing.

I think it’s important for hospitals to be clear and open and explain why decisions have been made, to show pros and cons have been weighed up very carefully. Accepting everything without question can easily lead to ‘because of covid’ being the quick go-to justification to pull choices away from women at every turn.

@Bufferingkisses why not start your own discussion about other departments then? No one is saying it's worse than others as it's not a competition, but this discussion is about maternity services, and not people dismissing it because other people are also suffering. I could understand referring to things such as well in perspective others have experienced x, y and z and that's important to consider; but not to keep trying shut it down because of that.

aside from the lack of birth partner - in some but not all cases - what precisely is lacking?

Face to face midwife appointments are still suspended in some areas, and with it a lack of blood and urine tests- this can be really dangerous to both mother and baby. Pre-eclampsia for example doesn't always have obvious physical symptoms, those routine tests can and do save lives.

Some areas have zero postnatal care in place, and I don't just mean you can't get your baby weighed (although that is an issue), but absolutely nothing, including for those with postnatal depression (not sure about postnatal phycosis, but hope they can access the help they need otherwise that's a travesty).

A rise in stillbirths which the research mainly attributed to a lack of access to care during pregnancy, one London hospital published a report citing that stillbirths had increased 4 fold over a period during lockdown.

It's only relatively recent that parents were even allowed to be in at a birth.

In the current climate I really don't see what is so terrible about not allowing a partner to attend at a scan. I was on my own for my scan and later when an amniocentesis test was done. No big deal.

Ok, it's about women and birthing only. Nothing else shall be mentioned. 😇

So, under the current restrictions and issues the NHS is facing some women are not getting the same service they were previously for labour and birth? just like lots of people are not getting the same service they were before for many, many, many things aside from the lack of birth partner - in some but not all cases - what precisely is lacking?

Of course care of women during labour and childbirth is a feminist issue. Absolutely mad to suggest it isn’t.

I totally agree with you, OP, it is appalling that birth partners are restricted to this extent. It doesn’t even make much sense - most birth partners live with the mother, so surely if one had COVID the other would?! Plus, there are COVID tests which can get rapid results - other countries are using them at airports. Absolutely no idea why this isn’t considered a priority.