The NHS is run by misogynists, say women forced to give birth alone

This is an interesting discussion as I wondered where the blame really is in regards to women not having support during labour, birth and beyond.

I gave birth at start of Lockdown to a premature baby. Even though I was in premature labour with a history of losing our previous premature baby, I was not allowed my husband there with me due to not being the magic 4cm. I was alone in a side assessment room, barely big enough for the bed watching my baby's heartbeat declining on the monitor. I had no labour bag with me as I wasnt able to carry them up due to having contractions every 2-3 minutes, I was barely able to get myself into the hospital. Our son ended up being born by EMCS, even as I was signing the consent forms and being prepped I was not allowed my husband by my side. I kept asking my MWs, they kept denying him entry. It wasnt until I was about to wheeled to theatre that the Dr asked where my husband was! He said he was know allowed to come in, my husband just about made it. But I know many women whose husbands didnt.

Post csection, my husband was allowed to stay with me to briefly visit our son in NICU but then he was told to go very sternly by a MW who wouldnt even let him collect his things - I had to carry his bags, less than 24 hours post surgery, to him at the door. I had to stay, recovering from a csection and fearing for my baby's survival alone. I have severe MH issues already but my EMCS went wrong, the spinal block wore off half way through, so I kept having flashbacks. I remained alone in NICU on the parent bay, I ended up having to be readmitted to the postnatal ward as I had done myself damage from not being able to care for myself. Meanwhile, my husband was not able to see our son again, after that brief first visit, for 4 weeks.

My MH is ruined and a lot of it I do blame on Covid. The day before I gave birth, a Dr sent me home because he said it was best for me not to be taking up a bed during Covid even though I had concerns regarding my babys movement and contractions were being picked up on the monitor. Did my spinal block wear off because everyone was stressing out more about me spiking a temp than correctly administering the block? Was my recovery harder because I had to do it alone, there were no MWs to help with my care nor was there adequate food provided - often I had to go a whole day with nothing but toast to eat.

Sorry for such a long one! Just I feel Covid restrictions have really damaged my physical and mental health.

I do appreciate I am lucky that my baby survived though. I have 2 friends who recently had to go through baby loss alone due to covid. One had an ectopic pregnancy and another a stillbirth at 23 weeks, neither were allowed their partners with them through the whole process from finding out to being discharged home.

I do think someone should be with a birthing mother. It maybe can be possible to birth alone when all goes and ends well but we don't know that in advance. I had an early stillbirth last year and holding a dead baby while being flooded with all these bonding hormones making me want to care for her resulted in me very, very seriously wanting to hang myself. DH had to watch me like a hawk and feed me till they got me to a psychologist. I wouldn't have survived alone in a hospital, I would've jumped.

@AnotherEmma the issue I have with the other words you mention is that they describe oppression to non-women also and are not specific enough.

The only word that describes specific oppressive actions against women is misogyny and yes, at times so feel its use is too aggressive, too tightly wound, to make progress. It's like giving fuck you the finger in the second sentence of a debate.

Especially when some of the people with misogynistic views, are women. They can't see the lifelong inherent predetermination that's occurred in their thought development. Or where they do see it but compete in survival of the fittest. ( I gave birth with no pain relief so you can too) It's like opening your eyes to see that what you thought was ok, really isn't ok. It's often the first step to feminism and liberation. Sorry I'm rambling.

This here is a really good example - that it's not ok and should be dealt with - regardless of the logistical risk assessments.

This is not OK. No excuses.

I have had a quick referral for abdominal pain where I was investigated for ovarian cysts, again treated very quickly. Actually, the only time I feel I wasn’t listened to during my many contacts with medical professionals was when I was in labour with my first child, and the female doctor who came to stitch me up told me I was being soft and couldn’t have gas and air whilst she was doing it!

My dd has just had a child - she did all the ante natal appointments herself from March onwards and didn’t mind one iota. She was prepared mentally for maybe having to give birth without her partner - NOT alone as there is always at least 1 midwife present - and accepted that may be necessary. In the end she had a home birth.

Making blanket assumptions on women’s experiences at the hands of male medics is not helpful at all, because so many women don’t have those experiences. And yes, I know how awful it is to be given bad news at an appointment - I was told my 12 week old pregnancy was no longer viable when I went for a scan many years ago. I was alone and it was awful. I went in for surgery the following day - again alone because that was what happened then. Sure, I’d have preferred not to have been without my partner, but it wasn’t that part that traumatised me, it was the actual event. Both times I’ve given birth, I couldn’t have cared less if my partner was with me or not in the throes of labour.

To say that it’s misogynistic implies that women working within the profession have no say in decisions that are made. The women I know who work in the profession are far from misogynistic and are very much advocates of women.

The thing is, once again, it's guidance not law. Each trust has to risk assess for itself, in fact each department has to risk assess for itself, in many cases each room has to be risk assessed. Lots of things impact on the decisions being made from the size of rooms to the availability of staff and a world of other things.

What would be interesting would be to ask for the risk assessments the trust who are not allowing partners have done.
We have had to enter the internal dimensions of rooms, where chairs/beds can be relative to equipment, what happens if there is an emergency and more people need to be in a room. A vast amount of information has to be assessed to make these decisions.

You may not be wrong, it may be that some trusts have short cut and just gone "birth partners are not essential" in which case it definitely needs calling out but I think assuming that is the case without checking available facts is dangerous.

We don't need a new word, we have plenty already - discrimination, sexism, patriarchy. The fact that women's healthcare is substandard compared to men's healthcare is discrimination, it's sexist and it's a symptom of the patriarchy.

Misogyny is a strong word and is probably making people defensive. It does exist though. At some point the casual contempt for women does go from discrimination to misogyny; it's a fine line.

I would argue that HCPs who are indifferent to women's pain and suffering probably are misogynists, they are probably (hopefully) in the minority though.

Personally I feel we need a new word alongside misogyny. Taking it at its base definition its a hatred for women. So you would say that these particular trusts are led by people who hate women and thus refuse to improve experiences or outcomes for women specific services as a result of that hatred.

But I think, and I've been thinking this on the feminism boards too - we need a new word that describes situations where women specific needs are secondary. Different than discrimination. A reduction in services or availability of appropriate care (in this instance) because of prior institutionalised, systematic and inherent misogyny that still lingers but isn't the direct reason. People don't realise they hold misogynistic views, or write misogynistic policies because the definition is so tightly wound to being 'women haters'. (Eg Well I managed giving birth in my own so why can't every other woman? It's not that difficult?!)

We need something else more modern that tackles the broader spectrum of continued (and at times deliberate) shrinking boundaries of women's rights in today's day and age. And I think this word would better describe this situation than direct misogyny.

I think i should start this as a new discussion thread.

I'm off this week so will be watching PMs Q's on Wednesday and see if this comes up.

@Vermeil to be fair the OP hasn't declared it misogyny, just quoted the content of the article she has linked and tried to maintain comparable debate around proven medical outcomes rather than the empathy of 'being alone' at a difficult time whereby the presence of a partner improves the experience but not the medical outcome. (Although a little blunt at times)

@movingonup20 it is correct that some trusts are still not allowing birth partners despite the guidelines changing to say they can. Hence why the MP is taking it to parliament on Wednesday. It's really good that your friends didn't face this as an issue.

This thread is a good example of a worthy topic easily derailed through bad framing. Yes, women who are pregnant/giving birth, are having a very difficult time due to Covid restrictions, and it’s well worth making a lot of noise about this so things can be improved. Lay it out like that and everyone can have a nice constructive discussion about the problems at hand. However, what it isn’t is misogyny. You can’t make that claim when NHS Covid restrictions are having such devastating effects across the board, for people who have had a cancer diagnosis, who are receiving cancer treatment, for people with other life threatening conditions who’s quality of life and care has been severely impacted, for those experiencing poor end of life care and their loved ones, for those forced to die alone and the families who’ve been unable to say goodbye to them. Saying that it is just seems tone-deaf and amazingly insensitive.
So sure, let’s discuss how bad it is for pregnant and birthing women at the moment, because it is bad, and it needs to be talked about as an issue in its own right, but it can’t be singled out as exceptionally bad due to some other factor than Covid because it’s just not true and it just creates argument, as it has done here.
OP, your intentions are noble, I can see that, but a slightly different start to the thread could have made this a far more interesting discussion.

@MillyMollyFarmer

I have had 5 friends give birth since March, all have been allowed partners with them including the one with a c-section. Not sure where you are getting your information from but it's not correct

I think it might be because so many other restrictions have been lifted (in everyday life) over the last few months that it seems even more unfair that we still have so many restrictions in place for maternity services.

At the beginning of lockdown, when schools, childcare, shops, restaurants, pubs and bars were still closed, there was a higher level of anxiety and tolerance of restrictions, and I suspect that there would have been less sympathy and support for this campaign.

Not really a lockdown baby in hindsight but as far as the hospital restrictions go I would class it as such!

I had a 'lockdown baby' 4 weeks ago. High risk pregnancy with lots of second trimester scares and issues, the restrictions came in just before my 12 week scan so DP didn't come to any appointments after that.
I survived, I'm pretty resilient, but it really made me resent him and damaged our relationship for a time. Not that it was his fault he couldn't be there, but when we decided to try for a baby it was on the understanding that he would support me and look after me and I ended up carrying the emotional and physical can for both of us. I also had to make all the decisions as I'd 'heard what the Dr said first hand'. I'm fully aware as a woman only I can physically bear and birth a baby but I felt a really strong sense of this not being what I signed up for when we decided to have a baby, a process which these days involves both parents to a greater extent than perhaps it has in the past.
I'm a bit annoyed that this issue is only being publicised so much now as restrictions have been in place since all this kicked off, a good 5 months ago. Is this because some trusts are lifting restrictions and it's highlighting the variations in policy from trust to trust?

Thanks @bythehairsonmychinichinchin.

and attend antenatal appointments alone

And so what? They are women, not children.

Thanks OP for highlighting this. There is a bit of chat on this over on Childbirth, showing that it can be very anxiety inducing. Not to mention (and I hate to do this, but perhaps it's the only way it gets taken seriously) men lose out as well from these rules. They are parents too, and to have to risk not being there for the birth of your child is pretty rotten, or there to support your partner if something goes wrong. Yes not all men are helpful, or want to be involved, but some are and do.

To the wider point, I don't think a lot of the rules in hospitals are reasonable for serious situations such as life changing diagnoses or end of life care, and welcome a discussion about why these frankly inhuman restrictions are in place. However, in this instance we are talking about how these restrictions impact a uniquely female experience, which may be partly driven by misogyny. Some hospitals are still insisting on internal examinations on women in order to access care, unaware they can refuse, or that if admitted for observation will be completely alone for early labour, at least. The fact that some hospitals have been slow to implement the updated guidance certainly implies that maternity is less of a priority when looking at providing quality care. Now why might that be?