Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

The NHS is run by misogynists, say women forced to give birth alone

190 replies

MillyMollyFarmer · 20/09/2020 13:54

Tory MP Alicia Kearns has been running a campaign to make all NHS trusts change the policies around women giving birth and for pregnancy check ups during Covid. It’s horrific but I didn’t realise it was still ongoing now. This includes women who have lost their babies and have to proceed with the process alone as partners wait outside. I’m so utterly horrified at the inhumane way they are dealing with this. It’s unnecessary. Apparently Boris has backed calls but some trusts are just ignoring women’s requests. I find this so upsetting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8751493/How-one-pregnant-MP-fighting-stop-trauma-lone-births-caused-Covid-rules.html

OP posts:
ArticulateYourLife · 21/09/2020 12:11

Can I put in a word for the predominantly female work force caring for these pregnant and labouring women, or don't they count?

LittleTiger007 · 21/09/2020 12:11

@MillyMollyFarmer that is interesting to hear... I really hope this campaign gathers momentum

ifonlyus · 21/09/2020 12:06

"I think, too often, women are just seen as easy pickings"

Yes to this. In a system where pregnant and birthing women are already often infantalised and their wants and needs overridden to often dire outcomes.

Original poster
MillyMollyFarmer · 21/09/2020 12:06

LittleTiger007 congratulations to you on your new pregnancy too, that’s wonderful and I wish you all the best.

Alicia Kearns was just on Talk Radio with Julia Hartley-Brewer discussing this. This is important, she said a lot of doctors have contacted her as they’re concerned that they’ve never seen so many tears on maternity wards or so much PTSD amongst new mums.

This is 100% a feminist issue. I hope we can all support the campaign rather than dismiss the concerns from both women affected, and their doctors.

OP posts:
mindfulnessfail · 21/09/2020 12:06

@longcoffee

I don't know what the situation was previously with regards to giving birth to a baby who has passed, however I can confidently say that partners are allowed with you now.

I am having a termination at 22 weeks tomorrow, due to my baby girl having severe heart issues that mean she is 'incompatible with life'.

My husband will be with me for the process tomorrow, and, when I'm admitted back to hospital on Wednesday to be induced, we will both be in a suite together, and he'll be with me when I'm moved to delivery too.

I was able to deliver in London, Kent or Sussex. Of the four NHS hospitals I was offered, all have the same provision with regards to partners.

I am hugely grateful that he can be by my side and have a chance to meet our daughter.

I'm petrified, but knowing he'll be there helps a bit. I had to hear the initial news on my own at a scan in our Kent hospital, but he has been there for the subsequent diagnosis and tests, all carried out in London. Throughout this process, we have been assured by various midwives and consultants that the situation is changing, and every fight is being fought to allow partners to be present at every stage

Longcoffee am so sorry for you, what an awful thing for you all to go through. Wishing you all the best Flowers
Yukka · 21/09/2020 12:06

It's just an opinion. One that you dismissed from the get go with little insight. And the superior tone of your last sentence is an example of the problem. You are putting other women down. Why do you do this?

LittleTiger007 · 21/09/2020 11:59

Thanks @MillyMollyFarmer. Maybe women’s stories need to be gathered up and sent to the powers that be. Alternatively to the BBC?

LittleTiger007 · 21/09/2020 11:58

@rorosemary I’m so sorry for all that you went through. Congratulations on your new pregnancy. I’m pregnant again too.
All the best to you for a wonderful experience this time around.

Itisbetter · 21/09/2020 11:55

I think whatever is safer is a good idea.

AnotherEmma · 21/09/2020 11:50

So feminism isn't the right word - despite the fact that there are many "flavours" of feminism as you point out yourself - because "it can all be a bit extreme"?

God help us.

This thread is so depressing, it's on the feminism chat board so I would have hoped for better Sad

Yukka · 21/09/2020 11:41

@AnotherEmma

"What word centres women and promotes and protects our needs. I genuinely can't think of one."

Er... feminism?! It's so obvious I feel I must be missing something?!

But feminism views focus on a range of social and political ideology's. Liberal feminism. Radical feminism. Social feminism. Marxist feminism. They all represent and desire different things for women. Some focus more on the removal of others rights (bring down the patriarchy!) And some focus on the creation of a purely female centred society. It can all be a bit extreme.

Take the example earlier of the lady where the female dr wouldn't give pain relief, but I'm sure if asked would never in a million years think that she's a woman hater. What is that? Maybe it is just plain misogyny.

I probably can't explain well enough it until I can put words or a word to the thoughts in my mind about it. So I'll leave it there.

Original poster
MillyMollyFarmer · 21/09/2020 11:35

rorosemary congratulations and I’m so glad for you that you can have DH with you this time. Thank goodness.

OP posts:
Original poster
MillyMollyFarmer · 21/09/2020 11:34

LittleTiger007
I’m so sorry for your terribly sad loss and that you had to do it all alone. There are no words of comfort that will help you, I know, but I am sorry and I agree with you that there just doesn’t seem to be justification for it. Especially as you both isolated. How awful for you Flowers

OP posts:
rorosemary · 21/09/2020 11:32

@MillyMollyFarmer

rorosemary I am so very sorry Flowers I hope you’re ok now and I am glad you had a partner with you. I understand your feelings and I hope you’ve had plenty of support since.
I am, thank you, and pregnant again. I'm not in the UK so where I am one partner gets to stay with me. They assured me that even if DH has fullblown coughing covid he will still get to stay, although will be forced to wear a hazmat suit and whatnot and they'll wear full PPE but I'm allowed him there and I won't have to wear anything.

But I really don't understand this stance that many hospitals in the UK are taking. What does it matter if he is or isn't there for the first 4 cm? He'll probably see enough staff during the rest so might as well be there from the beginning. Make the partners wear visors and masks if need be. Birthing mothers shouldn't be alone, unless the mother wants to herself.

AnotherEmma · 21/09/2020 11:30

"What word centres women and promotes and protects our needs. I genuinely can't think of one."

Er... feminism?! It's so obvious I feel I must be missing something?!

LittleTiger007 · 21/09/2020 11:28

@BimbleTea I am so very sorry and sad to read your story. God bless you.

LittleTiger007 · 21/09/2020 11:25

Back in June I had to attend my scan alone whilst my husband was in the car park outside the hospital.

I was told we had lost the baby alone and then had to break it to him in the car. Two weeks later I had a procedure to remove the tissue ... again alone. No husband there holding my hand as I woke up. It is inhumane. For him as well as me.

Before the procedure we both had to undergo two weeks quarantine so that I could be admitted. He had to forgo two weeks pay and was as virus free as I. So why couldn’t he be in the room with me? There is no arguable reason I can see.

I find it horrifying to read that women are enduring births and even worse still-births without their partner by their side. It is a time when the woman needs support and the partner feels so helpless and grief struck that they too need to be involved and by their partners side. What good is it to anyone that these husbands and partners are pacing in the car park!?

Covid is no argument as the partner would be wearing a mask and in the case of a procedure they have to go through the 14 day quarantine anyway as they share a home.

It beggars belief ... and I know I’m not arguing my point well as I’m too emotionally involved in this subject.

YoBeaches · 21/09/2020 11:22

@AnotherEmma

Yukka "the issue I have with the other words you mention is that they describe oppression to non-women" Eh? Sexism is discrimination and prejudice against women. Patriarchy is a society/culture which favours men over women.
I mean that discrimination has several protected characteristics of which only one is sex/sexism (and currently being debated)

Patriarchy actually centres the most powerful male over other males, women and children. Though I agree usually used as term against women only.

Hence my viewpoint I guess. Even the word misogyny focuses on "them the woman hater"

What word centres women and promotes and protects our needs. I genuinely can't think of one.

Original poster
MillyMollyFarmer · 21/09/2020 11:16

BimbleTea

Thank you for sharing your story and please don’t apologise for the length of it. I am so sorry you had such an awful experience and I don’t think it’s ok that all that happened. I just don’t think it was necessary. I find a lot of what you’ve written to be dehumanising. This hasn’t been handled well at all and I will continue to say I think the government has done badly with respect to making sure other health concerns are properly addressed despite this virus being present.

OP posts:
Yukka · 21/09/2020 11:14

Actually, the only time I feel I wasn’t listened to during my many contacts with medical professionals was when I was in labour with my first child, and the female doctor who came to stitch me up told me I was being soft and couldn’t have gas and air whilst she was doing it!

Hmmm ...so how likely is it that she would have said the same if a man asked for pain relief whilst she was stitching his penis?

Could be fear of the patriarchy. Could be misogyny. Did she even realise how wrong she was to say that to you. This is what I mean - inherent, delayed, taught, oppression of women's needs.

AnotherEmma · 21/09/2020 11:13

rorosemary
I am very sorry for your loss Flowers

BimbleTea
Sorry about your experience, it was not ok Flowers

Emeraldshamrock · 21/09/2020 11:12

@longcoffee I'm sorry Flowers

AnotherEmma · 21/09/2020 11:12

Yukka
"the issue I have with the other words you mention is that they describe oppression to non-women"
Eh?
Sexism is discrimination and prejudice against women.
Patriarchy is a society/culture which favours men over women.

Original poster
MillyMollyFarmer · 21/09/2020 11:12

rorosemary I am so very sorry Flowers I hope you’re ok now and I am glad you had a partner with you. I understand your feelings and I hope you’ve had plenty of support since.

OP posts:
Original poster
MillyMollyFarmer · 21/09/2020 11:09

Making blanket assumptions on women’s experiences at the hands of male medics is not helpful at all, because so many women don’t have those experiences

I’m not making ‘blanket assumptions’ about anything. I literally just quoted a government report on endometriosis having to tell HCP’s that they must listen to women because they concluded that wasn’t happening already, hence the long wait times. Women in the article and writing to this MP have also told their stories about maternity care. There’s been plenty of threads here over the years about women’s health care with many women sharing their stories of poor treatment, during smears, pregnancy, birth, when experiencing pain, when accessing terminations... the list goes on. I’m not assuming a damn thing. I’m so glad you had a great experience. Many other women haven’t and it’s not cool to base everything on your own experience while telling others they’re assuming things or being too hard on the poor men just because you got treated well. It’s very dismissive and not very feminist at all.

OP posts: