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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ruth Bader Ginsburg has died.

83 replies

FromEden · 19/09/2020 01:28

A legend. RIP. Can we kiss goodbye to abortion in the US now? Will we see further attacks on women's rights if the Republicans get to appoint a replacement? Scary times.

OP posts:
MichelleofzeResistance · 19/09/2020 10:53

Don’t underestimate how important abortion is in the US to feminists. They will fight.

This is my one comfort at a time when things for women just seem to be getting worse and worse.

This is going to cause an international, massive surge of very angry female people who do the fight again for women's rights, and based on previous law and experience of what happened with those laws in place, this time fight for much stronger, pervasive and permanent change instead of a veneer of 'it's all better now' over the top. We're seeing this with gay rights, with BAME rights, the veneer is coming away and it's apparent how shallow and superficial change really way.

It's scary to think it may take years, but people like RBG have left their mark. I think we're going to end in seeing a women's rights movement that make the previous historical ones look mild, because it's going to end up affecting all women, not just the ones with a feminist interest.

BovaryX · 19/09/2020 10:41

@TeddyDahlia

Trump will not be able to get a replacement nominated and confirmed before the election. Even an expedited process would take too long.

What this does mean is that the Supreme Court become (even more of) a political issue in play at the election; Trump can use the possibility of losing the opportunity to replace Ginsburg as a means of galvanising Republican voters to turn out and vote.

In terms of whether it would be the end of Roe v Wade if Ginsburg were to be replaced with a Republican - probably not. For one thing, the Supreme Court is already majority Republican, so it isn’t Ginsburg who held the line for democrats. It would obviously be very concerning from a left wing point of view to have her replaced by a Republican - particularly one chosen by Trump. But it’s unlikely to be the tipping point for Roe v Wade.

But even more importantly, the Supreme Court doesn’t actually strictly split down Republican / Democrat lines. The more relevant split is Institutionalist / Radical. Those justices who are institutionalists will almost always vote to uphold decisions which have gone before, and will rely heavily on precedent. The current head of the Supreme Court, John G Roberts is a Republican and an institutionalist, which means he would be most likely to uphold Roe v Wade on the basis of it being settled precedent. It is therefore not at all guaranteed, or even likely, that a majority Republican SC would overturn Roe v Wade.

Interestingly, that’s why you sometimes see Sonia Sotomayor voting in favour of upholding precedent even when it doesn’t seem consistent with her political stance; she recognises the value in the Supreme Court upholding the decisions of more liberal benches of the past, and so she is a staunch institutionalist in order to strengthen that position in the hope that her Republican colleagues will do the same.

Teddy Superb analysis, particularly re the Institutionalists/Radical split rather than Republican/Democrat. Just when the US election looked like it couldn't get more interesting, I wonder what calculations Mitch McConnell is making...
jennywasafriendofmrbrightside · 19/09/2020 10:28

I'm British, and this one really hurts.

What a truly incredible woman she was, she deserved better 😔

viques · 19/09/2020 10:11

Such sad news to wake up to.

The women of the US have lost a powerful champion. Their rights will be trampled into the dust .

TeddyDahlia · 19/09/2020 08:50

Trump will not be able to get a replacement nominated and confirmed before the election. Even an expedited process would take too long.

What this does mean is that the Supreme Court become (even more of) a political issue in play at the election; Trump can use the possibility of losing the opportunity to replace Ginsburg as a means of galvanising Republican voters to turn out and vote.

In terms of whether it would be the end of Roe v Wade if Ginsburg were to be replaced with a Republican - probably not. For one thing, the Supreme Court is already majority Republican, so it isn’t Ginsburg who held the line for democrats. It would obviously be very concerning from a left wing point of view to have her replaced by a Republican - particularly one chosen by Trump. But it’s unlikely to be the tipping point for Roe v Wade.

But even more importantly, the Supreme Court doesn’t actually strictly split down Republican / Democrat lines. The more relevant split is Institutionalist / Radical. Those justices who are institutionalists will almost always vote to uphold decisions which have gone before, and will rely heavily on precedent. The current head of the Supreme Court, John G Roberts is a Republican and an institutionalist, which means he would be most likely to uphold Roe v Wade on the basis of it being settled precedent. It is therefore not at all guaranteed, or even likely, that a majority Republican SC would overturn Roe v Wade.

Interestingly, that’s why you sometimes see Sonia Sotomayor voting in favour of upholding precedent even when it doesn’t seem consistent with her political stance; she recognises the value in the Supreme Court upholding the decisions of more liberal benches of the past, and so she is a staunch institutionalist in order to strengthen that position in the hope that her Republican colleagues will do the same.

PepeLePew · 19/09/2020 08:47

I agree, LouHotel. I have a random entanglement through work with a bunch of very conservative Catholic republicans who have been horrified by Trump throughout. They seem him as brash, embarrassing and lacking in morality. But they would vote for him again if it meant they could suppress Roe v Wade and get other crazy “bioethic” (their phrase) laws through the Supreme Court.

talesofginza · 19/09/2020 08:41

Bad news indeed. Even before this happened, I had a bad feeling that we would be getting 4 more years of Trump.

My hope is that by having to fight a repeal of Roe vs Wade, liberal feminists will no longer have the time and patience to coddle the trans activists (I can imagine it now... "This pro-choice rally is transphobic!").

bellinisurge · 19/09/2020 08:36

Just woke up to the news - @Helmetbymidnight has expressed my second thought. My first being Ah Shit.

Helmetbymidnight · 19/09/2020 08:33

yes, theres speculation that trump will risk holding the judges spot open as a vote for me carrot for wavering republicans...

ThatSpiderDidntMissLegDay · 19/09/2020 08:18

I read her book earlier this year, and was blown away by everything about her. She was an incredible person. RIP

LouHotel · 19/09/2020 08:18

The issue is that there were alot of republicans who were going to vote Biden over trump however the chance to secure a conservative ideology for 30+ years might be too much for them and they'll stick with Trump and just bunker down for 4 years.

I do think Democrats could take back the senate if they push through a vote. They've raised 10 millions in 3 hours to go towards senate races.

She was a powerhouse and I'm desperately sad for America right now.

Balloondog · 19/09/2020 08:16

Rest well RBG. You fought well and we will continue the fight. You will be remembered as 'a woman who used the talent she had to do her work to the best of her ability'.

LittleBlueRidingBoot · 19/09/2020 08:09

Rest now in peace RBG.
You fought the good fight.

PepeLePew · 19/09/2020 08:08

This is terrible news.
We have mourned and celebrated her already this morning as seems appropriate and it’s made so much worse by the fact that it’s not possible to do that without also feeling so anxious about what comes next. We can’t even celebrate her life and be thankful for what we did without knowing that McConnell who really is a duplicitous horror show is going to ensure her legacy is undone. It’s worse than POTUS in some ways as a 6-3 balance on the Supreme Court will last for far longer than a presidential term. Not to mention that the Supreme Court could well swing the next election. Trump is vile but he’s without any real ideology that isn’t about promoting Trump. The people behind him are the ones to really worry about.

Sexnotgender · 19/09/2020 08:04

Devastating news. Women’s rights are already on such a backwards trajectory.

Rest in power RBG. You were magnificent.

Ansjovis · 19/09/2020 08:00

I never knew that she beat cancer four times (I did know she had cancer but not that many times), and pancreatic cancer in 2009. What a woman to have kept going through all that, what an inspiration. So very sad to hear that news this morning.

I'm now glad that I don't live in the US. There are some utterly crazy people who would vote for a lamp post if someone told them it was a republican because their power for independent critical thinking is non-existent. They certainly don't have the brainpower to even begin to engage with the idea that their political decisions cost lives. It's time for everyone who can to rise up and prevent McConnell from getting away with what he plans to and to back Biden as the least worst candidate, however reluctant many people I know are to do so. Then we can have a hope at protecting RPG legacy.

Mercedes519 · 19/09/2020 07:47

Just seen this from the UK and read the Washington Post article. Balanced but she did so much.

Says it all really
“Justice Ginsburg was also criticized for speaking too frankly in interviews and speeches, especially about abortion rights and same-sex marriage.”

Too frankly?! God help us all.

katmarie · 19/09/2020 07:39

She was an absolute legend, and a part of me was convinced she was going to live forever by sheer will of determination, she certainly had that in spades. My Facebook this morning is full of American women grieving for the loss of RBG, and the future loss of their rights and freedoms as a result. Its heartbreaking and horrifying.

Rest in Power RBG.

BraveBananaBadge · 19/09/2020 07:37

How awful. RIP

PamDemic · 19/09/2020 07:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ballstothis148 · 19/09/2020 07:17

You couldn’t pay me to go to America right now, actually scary to think of what could happen as a woman there.

I guess one thing to do is VOTE to get back some power. I mean if you like R or D (yes id vote Dem) but whoever is decent and not bigoted. There must be candidates out there! And obviously vote to get the Tramp out

FloralBunting · 19/09/2020 07:12

I am so sorry, American women. You've lost an amazing icon, and the future looks very precarious. I wish I had something more constructive to say, but fact is, women will always have to fight just to stand still. Gird your loins, wims. You have made gains, now fight hard to keep them xx

FromEden · 19/09/2020 07:10

We in America are terrified, devastated and utterly disgusted that we might lose all our reproductive rights as women of they replace her with their hand-chosen anti-choice candidate.

Yes, the handmaids tale gets ever closer. There are already people rejoicing about it being the chance to repeal roe vs wade. With all that's going on in the country right now, that's what they are focussing on? The fact that people can hate women so much is scary. Luckily, it does seem that there are a few within the republican party with a sense of decency, who want to wait until after the election to appoint a replacement but probably not enough :(

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Helmetbymidnight · 19/09/2020 07:09

sad news, and bad news. sorry to hear this.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 19/09/2020 07:05

Oh god. This is awful.