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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mothers alcohol use shown on medical records

285 replies

RegularHumanBartender · 16/09/2020 15:24

I have just stumbled across this on the Sky news homepage and I am horrified. I have no words! Apologies if there is already a thread, I did scan the first page but I couldn't see one.

Talk about reducing women to sacred incubators! I am struggling to form sentences I am so incensed by this. Not sure if this is even the right place to post.

news.sky.com/story/mothers-alcohol-use-could-soon-be-shown-on-childs-medical-record-prompting-privacy-fears-12073153

OP posts:
Flittingaboutagain · 18/09/2020 14:52

Clymene

As an example, if I am trying to decide if someone has dementia, an undiagnosed learning disability, or alcohol related-brain injury. The diagnosis is important because support services are geared up (and funded) on the basis of the diagnosis. So if I can determine that the person has cognitive difficulties such as poor concentration and short term memory loss due to alcohol-related problems they would receive different (theoretically more appropriate) support than someone who had dementia. Does that make sense?

So knowing risk factors can really help aid diagnosis.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2020 14:10

Of course anything that happens after the birth is a different ball game because then that is part of the babies situation. Of course it is tangled because the baby can't speak for themselves.

When it comes to shunting highly sensitive historical or current info about the mother eg previous pregnancy details, MH issues which could include info about self harm etc that is disclosed during the pregnancy. And without any consent for sharing gained. It is extremely problematic and goes against everything I have learnt about data protection.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2020 13:50

Or will be once you start getting patients born post 2000 I think it was. When it went all shared and electronic. That's what I've got from the thread anyway.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2020 13:40

And also 'oh it's useful' is not how data protection works.

Data protection prevents lots of things happening that would be useful, but it's not an argument for ignoring the principles. In fact it's illegal to do so resulting in fines. How the NHS has decided (or not even considered) the legal and real life consequences of including data classed as sensitive in the records of another person, without explicit permission, is beyond me.

NiceGerbil · 18/09/2020 13:37

According to posters on here it's already available on the child's records flitting, along potentially with drug use, details of previous pregnancies, previous mental health problems, DV and so on

So not sure why this article has even been written.

Clymene · 18/09/2020 11:26

@Flittingaboutagain

As someone who is involved in cognitive testing for adults presenting with neurological damage it would be really helpful to know how much the mother was drinking during pregnancy and BF. Often the patient themselves has no idea and may not even be aware that there were alcohol issues if they were raised in care (especially 20+ years ago when we may not have paper records still) or relatives who could give a history have died.
How would it be helpful? I don't mean that in a snarky way but surely any support you give is based on need, not diagnosis?
Flittingaboutagain · 18/09/2020 11:11

As someone who is involved in cognitive testing for adults presenting with neurological damage it would be really helpful to know how much the mother was drinking during pregnancy and BF. Often the patient themselves has no idea and may not even be aware that there were alcohol issues if they were raised in care (especially 20+ years ago when we may not have paper records still) or relatives who could give a history have died.

BehindtheBump · 18/09/2020 11:06

It's an interesting question @SafeInBed. I haven't ever seen my medical history. Not sure I want to, given that apparently they might have recorded that I looked a bit shifty or 'didn't engage'- whatever that means. What else do they record? Hair a bit unkempt, socks didn't match...

SafeInBed · 18/09/2020 09:08

Wonder how many children will access the records as an adult and end up hating their mum for what's on there...

SafeInBed · 18/09/2020 09:07

Wonder how many children will access the records and end up hating their mum for what they see on there

Gurufloof · 18/09/2020 09:01

NiceGerbil
Yep, I'm frankly livid about this, and really want to know more.
It doesn't even effect me, my kids were born well before it started. But for other women from when it started to now I'm livid on their behalf.
Will do what I can.

oldmapie · 18/09/2020 07:33

I'm utterly shocked at what I have read on here. I cannot understand why so much confidential information on the mother is put in her child's medical record. To me this is a huge breach in confidentiality, and trust which could have a massive negative impact on maternal and child health.
I also want to know why it's a safe guarding flag if a woman doesn't want any medical intervention during pregnancy...surely that's her right? If we start giving a foetus rights over the body it is sharing that is absolutely terrifying.
NiceGerbil and others thank you for raising this. I can't understand why this isn't in the public domain.

NiceGerbil · 17/09/2020 18:26

Seems this thread has died but given that this is a huge deal that women are apparently unaware of, not surprisingly as you'd never imagine that this type of highly sensitive personal data would be available to your child, I'd be interested to see if anyone wants to help finding out about this more.

I'm in an industry where sensitive personal data is bread and butter and we don't make a change without checking with the data protection expert.

And here we have an org that is taking some of the most personal data you can imagine and handing it over to her children. With apparently zero consideration as to what consequences that may have in the real world. I find it unbelievable that this could happen.

NiceGerbil · 17/09/2020 14:05

'Nice Gerbil I work with looked after children and in child protection. I absolutely can't acsess parent's medical records, nor should I be able to. Only the GP has acsess to all the records.'

This is also not a good reason to lift and dump data classed as sensitive in the child/rens electronic shared notes.

Saying oh nor should I be able to in a sniffy way (data protection) is a bit rich when that is essentially being used as an excuse to copy notes from one person and put them in someone else's notes, with consent little or rarely sought from what I can see.

None of us had any idea that happened and there is NO info on line whatsoever.

NiceGerbil · 17/09/2020 14:02

I am talking about the GP records.

There seems to be a lot of cross purpose stuff here.

What we want to know is. Is it true that any information from a woman's past or present, including stuff like alcohol consumption, past mental health history, history of DV, past pregnancies detail which are collected from the woman during pregnancy, can be and are recorded on the opening notes of the baby when it is born. Then forming part of their standard shared notes across the NHS. That the child can read at 16.

This isn't about treatments, interventions or situations that arise after the child is born. It's about the notes taken by the HCPs who come in contact with a pregnant woman being put in her notes and also in the notes of the child as a starting point when it is born.

hopefulhalf · 17/09/2020 13:35

Nice Gerbil I work with looked after children and in child protection. I absolutely can't acsess parent's medical records, nor should I be able to. Only the GP has acsess to all the records.

FlorenceNightshade · 17/09/2020 13:22

@NiceGerbil

If there is an issue with the child or the family the people looking at it would surely have access to the mothers and fathers notes.

Why does it need to be on the child's permanent electronic records in those circs?

@NiceGerbil from a safeguarding point of view that just wouldn’t work. Concerns about a child’s health or safety are usually logged with HV to ensure that all professionals are then aware of the concern in future.
NiceGerbil · 17/09/2020 13:18

If there is an issue with the child or the family the people looking at it would surely have access to the mothers and fathers notes.

Why does it need to be on the child's permanent electronic records in those circs?

NiceGerbil · 17/09/2020 13:16

We're talking about the child's standard medical records. That are electronically recorded and these days shared across the NHS. And are the info that you get when you put in a request to see what info is held about you by the NHS.

FlorenceNightshade · 17/09/2020 13:08

@NiceGerbil “cases “ is how families are referred to in my area. It’s not as in criminal case but I can see how the vocabulary used by professionals can jar with people not used to it.

@Al1Langdownthecleghole I’m uk based (scotland).

I think what I’m trying to explain (badly) is that the parents circumstances- health and social become the babies history once it’s born. Information deemed relevant (by the professionals involved) can be taken from maternity notes and used in assessments/referrals/discussions around the child. But only if there are concerns would detailed information be required. It’s usually just a short summary, a copy of which goes in mums notes too and may be found in your red book (if you have one)

Child protection gives professionals a lot of access to information (rightly or wrongly) and this information can be shared without parental permission. Most professionals would tell a parent if information was being shared but sometimes that’s considered a safety risk too.

Separating mother from baby in the context of medical notes and history is a complicated issue that given the reactions on here it seems many were unaware how data captured is then used. I suggest as others have said contacting your local trusts for more information.

There is a caveat in my trust that when accessing notes certain information may be redacted and we may not tell you if parts are missing. One would like to think that information like this would fall in to that category but......we live in the real world

Hardbackwriter · 17/09/2020 13:03

hello doc I'm not coping with all the children'
'oh dear. Hold on while I look up the records of one of your children to find out how many children you have'

Make sure you pick the record of the youngest one!

RUOKHon · 17/09/2020 13:02

Much easier to try to control women's behaviour than tackle male violence I suppose

‘Twas ever thus.

NiceGerbil · 17/09/2020 13:02

I've just checked both my red books and nothing called birth record in either of them. So have no idea what they look like etc

Did get to reminisce over the notes I'd filled in when they were babies Grin

Clymene · 17/09/2020 12:58

Yes exactly @NiceGerbil. If I go to the GP and say I'm like the old woman in the shoe, why would she then look at my child's record?

NiceGerbil · 17/09/2020 12:54

'hello doc I'm not coping with all the children'

'oh dear. Hold on while I look up the records of one of your children to find out how many children you have'

Vs real life

'hello doc I'm not coping with all the children'

'oh dear. How many children do you have?'

And etc