My daughter has started a relationship with a boy who thinks he is a girl, and my dad is calling herself a lesbian

I think you should worry less about whether this partner is a man or a woman. What are they like? Kind to your daughter, making her happy and fulfilled? Or is it a bad relationship? It's strange to me that you haven't mentioned anything about this.

"I feel like my gut feelings about DD falling for a transwoman are based around fear of the unknown, that everything is going to be harder dating 'her' putting them at risk on trains or in public, of being attacked or singled out .. and at the heart of it I can't accept 'she' is a woman, not really. Not lesbians."

I think it's okay that you and your daughter define "woman" differently, you have different philosophical beliefs about whether sex or gender-presentation is more important to defining that category. I can honestly see both points of view. Unfortunately your daughter thinks your definition is offensive and harmful, so it's up to you to decide whether to keep the peace or argue on that one.

The other fears though - you say you are fine with the idea that a man can wear "feminine" clothing - anyone doing this would face similar risks being out in public. It seems unfair to frown on a relationship because of what the partner wears.

Your thinking isnt rigid

If she could assure you of the contraception issue you’d probably feel a lot better

I completely agree that she should love who she loves But its ok to be worried about ANY relationship

Thats the whole point of being a parent

And yes have rhe same frank conversation about contraception you would if she was dating any other male. Maybe fill up your home with popular culture by actual lesbians and see if she takes the hint that cultural appropriation is not ok and however nice you're being abour it you're not fooled.

Just humour her like you would any childish phase, OP. But make sure she knows you're humouring her. And never underestimate the power of a raised eyebrow or an "innocent" question.

Your DD should find out eventually whether or not she is gay. But if they are having sex I can't see how this particular relationship is a gay one. I'd discourage the relationship because you say your DD is innocent and the other person is older.

It's a bit dramatic to believe you have to adopt a 17 year old child's BF/GF world view to "keep" your child.

She will barely remember this relationship in ten years time.

You don't need to change your thinking OP, just arrive at a compromise where you respect their relationship and they respect your thinking.
DD and her gf don't need you to validate their identity and relationship, as much as they may want you to.
Just keep communicating and find boundaries which are acceptable to you all. DD may profess to 'hate' you for a while, but she is only 17. As long as you're present and respectful and reliable, you will not lose her. And maybe in months/years to come you will all be able to have an open discussion about this.
But if it were me, I would keep pressing the bruise of the issue of contraception - they must realise/accept they are of the opposite sex, gender identity irrelevant, so there is a risk of pregnancy.

But this is the thing that would worry me about the situation, i just couldnt think how to phrase it

And dd could shut moth right down by saying they are using protection but it sounds like she hasn’t, so is it because its a touchy subject between dd and partner?

What? I pointed out that Moth's DD needed to understand that regardless of gender identity, biology matters and as a uterus haver she could still get pregnant by a female penis.

Why did that get deleted? It's a scientific fact

I think your fears are quite realistic to be honest, I'm sure they will be fine amongst their peers, but the wider public may be a different matter. Sadly there is a lot of intolerance out there. Both for women and transpeople.
You probably do need to think things through and come to some kind of peace in yourself about this. I'm not sure you need to compromise your own thoughts, but you do need to find a neutral ground on which to meet your DD and potentially her partner too.

If your dad decides to be a lesbian, so is your mother btw.

Absolutely not; not if she is not attracted to female bodies.

If, in the hypothetical but impossible (because he is dead!) case that my husband declared himself a lesbian, I would not be sleeping with him. Absolutely not.
And I would not be a lesbian.

was met with heartbreaking crying (and she never shows me emotions) from DD that I had deadnamed her transwoman partner by talking about them as male.

This just highlights how fragile the belief in them as a woman actually is, a total failure to cope with reality.

I really feel for you and your daughter. I don't have any answers apart from just be there for her, criticising boyfriends at that age just makes them seem more appealing.

@NonMumInterloper great post.

Oh dear. That sounds upsetting.
Unfortunately her partner is probably schooling her in 'rightthink' too.
If she thinks that acknowledging contraception is needed is dead naming I would be worried about her getting pregnant!
Whilst I agree with all the posters saying it's a bit of a cheek to call yourself a lesbian in this situation, having that conversation will be toxic to your relationship with your DD, so I wouldn't say it right now. I think your approach of mild indifference will probably communicate your less than enthusiastic embracing of this ideology well enough. But you need to keep a friendly channel open to your DD for when this relationship inevitably bites the dust. Which it will, simply down to their ages.

‘Dead-named’ by (I assume) not saying Dave/Don/Fred but by counselling her - as a mum should - to use protection if she is having sex with her partner. Are you supposed to lalalalalala, they aren’t having sex with that... organ? And if they do she can’t get pregnant, ever? How old is the partner?

recommend a slim copper IUD

Really for a 17 year old? Too many stories of poor fittings of these to recommend them to my kids. It falls into the category of things women are told are ‘slightly uncomfortable’ but actually bloody hurt.

I’d take my chances with the latex condoms - I don’t think latex allergies are overly prevalent.

@NonMumInterloper and @FloralBunting this is heartbreaking, I'm so sorry

More seriously, I would be very uncomfortable by the gaslighting aspect of a young male claiming to be a girl

Sounds like OP's dd knows is trans though, and is happy?

Thoroughly enjoyed "my dad is calling herself a lesbian". Top marks for the application of appropriate pronouns under pressure, I thought.

More seriously, I would be very uncomfortable by the gaslighting aspect of a young male claiming to be a girl. Also when at that age this could be a case of the great unmentionable as opposed to gender dysphoria and wouldn't it be pretty miserable to end up on the transwidows thread so young if things escalate?

It's not Lily Madigan is it?

My dd 12 has decided she's bicurious , crack on love, was not the response she was after I think.

I'm sorry, but this made me laugh so much .