My daughter has started a relationship with a boy who thinks he is a girl, and my dad is calling herself a lesbian

Parenting teens is hard OP and you have done nothing wrong. These arguments are exhausting though and it's easy to feel like a failure. You are neither a failure as a mother nor do you need to deny your own beliefs to get on with your daughter.

I have a child the same age and the wild swings between mature, responsible young (almost) adult and stropping like I used to think only toddlers do is unreal.

I've noticed that agree to disagree is a concept that seems wholly unfamiliar to today's young people in all its implications. But I would try to explain (at a later point, when things are less fraught) that your (political and personal) views on sex and gender do not mean that you reject someone dear to your DD on a personal level just because your beliefs don't align. And that you'd love to get to know the person your DD has fallen in love with.

On the issue of contraception, I don't accept that kind of immature reaction and I don't think you should either. The consequences for boys of unprotected sex are simply not as dire. I did have not tears, but a pretty angry reaction, when I raised it after my child became sexually active. Once the tantrum was over, I made it clear that neither judgement nor prying into private matters motivated me to ask, but wanting to protect from unintended consequences.

The only answer I'm looking for is "yes please mum" or "no thanks, I'll take care of it myself". No more, no less.

When I got told "I took care of it already", I said "that's very responsible of you And that's all I wanted to know," and we were both fine after that.

In your particular situation I would mention to DD that trans inclusive health guides for young LBT women now include sections on contraceptives because some of these relationships may now result in unwanted pregnancies. So you raising the issue is not a matter of rejecting her partner's self-identification but growing out out of your concern for her her health and wellbeing.

I had a chance to be accepting and open and my fears and refusal to be open-minded have caused a schism. I think she hates me. I feel like my gut feelings about DD falling for a transwoman are based around fear of the unknown, that everything is going to be harder dating 'her' putting them at risk on trains or in public, of being attacked or singled out .. and at the heart of it I can't accept 'she' is a woman, not really. Not lesbians

Oh dear, OP this must be heart-wrenching.

To have to deny biological reality and your own beliefs to maintain a relationship with your DD. I have no advice, just sympathy for the situation in which you find yourself.

There's a young transperson in my family. I think it's a case of them actually being a butch lesbian in a deeply lesbophobic society (and a parent who thrives on the drama of having a transchild, frankly), but in order to maintain a relationship with that part of the family, I keep my mouth shut.

But this young person is not my actual dear darling daughter ... it must be wrenching for you.

How we live with a deep & sincere belief in reality in general, but accommodate its contradiction in our relationships with our nearest & dearest. OP how do you remain true to yourself while thinking you have to deny your own beliefs & your self, sacrifice yourself, for your DD.

Does your DH feel the same way? It might be interesting to have a conversation with him?

I have helped my uni aged daughter. She just needed the confidence that she was doing the right thing and that she had the ability to sort out her own choices.

I wouldn't be too sure that the advice and information they received at school is any where near comprehensive enough or that they can put what they 'know' into practice. It is really too important for them to learn the 'hard way'.

And what Rufus says - not every 17 year old is the same.

You can agree to disagree.

Your dd can believe what she likes but you will never truly believe that a male is a female just because they say so. She will just have to accept that.

What the hell does that even mean? Other than having to believe in souls, in almost New Age or religious thinking, the whole gender movement panders to regressive 1950s or even Victorian ideas of what it's like to be a man or woman. It's baffling! Woman in mind?????? Does that mean one cannot read maps, that someone is gentle, kind and nurturing? That they like make-up and high heels???

Instead of throwing off those expectations, and saying 'we won't be boxed', it's basically embracing often sexist sterotypes and going 'No no! Please put me in a box I belong there!'. It's because of these stereotypes that so many people are confused in the first place where women are being pressured to give up their spaces, to submit. One can say it's rude not to use pronouns, but it's equally disrespectful to expect people to bend their language to suit an ideology that they don't believe in.

'Women in mind'........god help us.

And again not every 17 year old is the same

Not for want of trying but one of mine is 18 and still waiting...

I think most posters on here are Not saying they woudl waylay their 18 year old and ask exactly what contraception and sexual preferenceS they have

Most just mean ‘you’re sorted with protection yeah?’

And most teenagers with go ‘god yeah, stop being embarrassing’

From what the OP said thats not what happened...her daughter got emotional and upset

I don't know why people are so coy about talking with their kids about their sexual health. Are you this embarrassed when they talk about going to the dentists?

The reality is until they're sexually active all the 'talk' is academic, and thats when the real talk starts, and for all the bluff and bluster not every 14yo is having sex so taking your daughter to get an implant to control her periods and her starting her sex life are two completely separate things.

I felt comfortable talking with my mun about sex, STDs, smear teats, menopause and everything in between.

It seems to be a Mumsnet thing that once your child hits puberty you're supposed to cease all parental responsibility and care.

[quote Gwynfluff]@DidoLamenting

So you’d not discuss contraception with an older teen if they asked your advice? Bit odd - you do know many teens are only just becoming sexually active then. Also for women, decisions about contraception last for the whole time there is reproductive capacity. Nothing infantilising about it at all.

But yes, I’d butt out of preferences at any age.

I’d be concerned about a big age gap.[/quote]
Nice straw man there. I made a general point about the obsession on MN about treating young people as children. How you turned that into the scenario you have just made up is your own invention.

@DidoLamenting

So you’d not discuss contraception with an older teen if they asked your advice? Bit odd - you do know many teens are only just becoming sexually active then. Also for women, decisions about contraception last for the whole time there is reproductive capacity. Nothing infantilising about it at all.

But yes, I’d butt out of preferences at any age.

I’d be concerned about a big age gap.

Any yet if at 17 (in your first meaningful relationship) she is acting like a child.

Declaring that mentioning that a partner has a penis (and therefore there’s a risk of pregnancy) is hateful and wrong, and getting angry/hysterical when someone points out that male + female + sex can = babies, then she isn’t exactly acting like a responsible adult.

Being concerned/worried isn’t infantilising it’s trying to protect her.

I agree. I'm amazed at MN's infantilisation of young people

Same, at 17 you definitely don't want your parents butting in and telling you what you do or don't want, or should be doing, or a contraception talk!
At that age your sex preference/relationships has absolutely NOTHING to do with your parents

Turquoise2 So what is the “mind and spirit” of a woman then ?

I agree that awareness among teenagers varies.

When I was young, I was really careful but that was during the early years of the AIDS epidemic and I was the child of a lone teen mother so that made me very aware of the consequences of unprotected sex. However from conversations with DS access to condoms and sexual health clinics are much easier now which seems to make them more casual about it.

I stand by my earlier advice. Have the talk then just be there when she needs you but don't get involved. As other PPs have said these relationships don't last, at this stage its all experimentation for her.

*certainly not the case that at 17 she will definitely be well informed and confident enough...

I worked in a University health centre and it we had many pregnant distraught young women of 18-23 having terminations because they got pregnant due to being sexually inexperienced until coming to University and not being fully informed of contraception options, or being too shy to ask a partner to use a condom, or too shy to ask for contraceptive advice from us before they started having sex.

It is certainly not the case that at 17 she will be well informed and confident enough to take action on her own.

Sorry I just can't imagine having a "talk" with my parent about sex and STIs and protection at 17... Why would you need it at that age

I'm happy to answer my kids' questions openly and honestly at any age and, with male centred extreme porn available via one click on a smartphone, absolutely determined to give them good advice when asked on ensuring sex is safe and pleasurable for all parties. So yes, we do still have these conversations with our older children as needed.

You appear to be making a sly dig about some sort of moralistic parently and you strike me as someone who is not currently parenting teens. But I could be wrong.

At 18, it will be her responsibility to keep up with contraception and not get STIs and pregnant when she doesn't want to. So, I would expect a 17 year old to already be able to do these things tbh or it's gonna be a hell of jump when she's an adult.

My parent got me the pill to use when I was 14, and a few of my friends wee 14/15 when their parents got them/took them to get pill/implant.

Your relationship with your daughter will last much, much longer than this messed up relationship she has with her SO.

You don't have to talk her out of it. Just wait it out and make sure you still have a good bond when it inevitably blows over.

As a poster mentioned upthread some 17 year olds are relatively on the ball with this sort of thing and others aren’t

The OP knows her daughter best

and it's frankly quite insulting how so many people on here are obsessed with this

Im certainly not obsessed with it

There are thousands of unwanted teenage pregnancies, id rather my dd wasn’t one of them and im Sure the OP feels the same way

Accidents happen and sometimes we get away with it and sometimes we dont

More to the point, getting on and obtaining and using contraception, with confidence, is very different from knowing what it is.

I'm not suggesting the OP should be trying to get too involved with the 'using it' part(!) but checking that the obtaining it part - and thinking about the options that suit her dd best and obtaining those - is something she might be a bit helpful with, depending on her dd's maturity, independence and prior sex life, if any.

If her ‘gf’ believes they are a woman would they even be up for using contraception designed for Male bodies? Or Is it all on your daughter OP?