News from the Changing Room

Brilliant job OP, your principal sounds like she has an open mind.
Have you seen the other thread yet called "social critique from Ireland...." there's a section near the end you may be interested in especially
; that girls should not believe the evidence of their own eyes; that girls should put male feelings and demands over their own feelings, privacy and safety; and that girls are not allowed to have boundaries with the opposite sex.

Also, wanted to mention Teni have a 3 year strategic plan which includes aiming to get gender identity and gender variance included in the curriculum, which is interesting to note, so I would think that people will become more aware of this in the coming years. Currently most of the country is unaware we have self id. I hope any change to the curriculum will be fair and evidence based, with input from all sides.

Excellent start op!

[quote FairytaleofBykerGrove]At the moment, children in Ireland can only legally self-ID from the age of 16 with parental permission and from 18 without parental permission. However there is a push for an imminent change to allow children under the age of 16 to self ID. This is on the current program for government.

This will have a huge impact on schools if it goes through. No one is talking about it.

static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2020/06/draft-programme-for-govt.pdf[/quote]
There is a deafening silence from the media on this. The vast majority of the people in Ireland are oblivious to it, and to its implications for women and children.

Sorry OP. Crossed posts.

I don't think children are legally recognised as trans in Ireland. So hopefully safeguarding will be prioritised over the Equality Act.

If they use the ‘there have been no difficulties in Ireland because of sharing spaces with those not female’ point out that there is actually no way of knowing that, as male bodied people that identify as trans are being recorded as women.

Does the law in Ireland also cover children that identify as trans, because children are not actually legally recognised as trans in the U.K.

I wish the school insurance companies would step up and say if they will pay out, if a parent takes the school to court, in case of an incident or due to religious discrimination. After all, many religions do not permits girls and boys to mix under those circumstances.

Congratulations OP. Make sure you have the correct crime and suicide statistics. Without a doubt the driving people to suicide lies will be rolled out. No thought will be given to the mental well-being of the young girls in the class.

What is the safeguarding policy for schools in Ireland?
If anything happened to a girl as a result of this, would there be a case for suing? On the grounds of not keeping her safe?

The problem is that in Ireland gender is protected in the Equality Act, sex isn't. So there is a possibility that if the "opposing side" threaten legal action then the school will cave.
The Irish government really sold women down the swanee when they changed the Equality Act. But its not the first time women have been sidelined in Ireland. There is a long history of misogyny, and unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter what party is in power.

Brilliant, Fairy, well done. That sounds really positive. Good luck for the meeting, and I would go prepared with stats on changing rooms, useful short pithy quotes, bullet pointed so you can access them easily.

I have a feeling schools are a bit hamstrung UNLESS parents speak up, though, so you are doing a fantastic job raising the issue.

Three more questions for your headteacher, OP.

1. What exactly is the 'middle ground' she hopes to find between letting the child in and keeping him out? The child can't change in the doorway, it had to be one or the other!

1. How can she be leading a school with a trans child coming on roll and NOT know about Mermaids - what has she been doing to prepare herself and her staff?

1. What are the objections to letting the child change with the boys - isn't it really the boys who need to be educated and prepared to welcome this child and make them feel comfortable?

Yes, it’s not about the ones you know, it’s all who are to come and it doesn’t matter if all the girls now say it’s ok, they can’t speak for all the girls to come

Just keep saying safeguarding. It's not about opposing points of view or differing ideologies, it's about safeguarding.

Schools have to think long-term. Today it might be one boy who everyone sees as gentle, polite and harmless etc etc, but it sets a precedent, doesn't it?

What about the next boy? What about the sneaky spy-camera wielding boy who posts video taken in the girls' changing room online? What about the next classful of boys barging in to change with the girls bc "We're all identifying as girls today, Miss, and you let him in so now you can't stop us!"

The ultimate question is "Can you imagine the headlines you'll be reading about the school and the TV and radio interviews you'll be doing to try to limit the damage if this decision opens the door?"

I'm willing to bet that while the school is using this public pool, no other customers are allowed in. The Head Teacher might want to consider why that is.

And whether, if she had no problem with adults in general being able to use the changing rooms at the same time as the kids, whether that would extend to adult women in the male changing rooms with the boys, and adult males in the female changing room with the girls.

And if, as I suspect, she would be absolutely horrified by the idea, why that scenario is different to the OP's daughter's situation?

Transabled of course 🙄 ( I hate my autocorrect)

But they could go in wearing blindfolds - because they could be self identifying trans labels visually impaired parents.

Well done OP, that's great news. I hope the policy meeting goes well and I'd be very interested in how there could be an opposing view to safeguarding, as others have mentioned. You should bring it back to safeguarding. Every. Time. Discussion. Veers.

I'm sure you've already done so but Safe Schools Alliance could be a useful resource to check out, they may even be able to give you some specific advice by email?

(Not all the way in, obviously).

Great work.

Would you mind saying - in general terms obviously - which aspects the head teacher hadn’t previously considered that you brought to her attention? Just thinking it might be useful to know as other HT might similarly not considered them so it would help when going in to be fully prepared...

Good luck with the meeting and 🤞 that it’s not the other child’s parent...

If you don't win, send some dads in dresses into the changing room at swimming time and wait for the shite to hit thefan

Great work and these are the sort of challenges that are indeed the rubber of the road we walk upon. And what a long old road it will be.

Excellent work. Do let us know how it goes.

The holder of the opposing view should be relevant, as in, either a safeguarding expert or have some experience of such matters. If it was the parent of the pupil it would be dreadful idea to expect you to effectively argue your points against the parent of this particular child. I imagine it will be a teacher or parent who has an alternate view rather than directly opposing. Maybe even someone from the swimming pool? Who knows.

Very interesting point from the legal perspective too and ultimately just great you raised this and the HT listened and took it seriously.

Well done, please keep us informed of the outcome

I also think you need to stress the importance of this because soon they will have to make decisions about school trips or going to the Gaeltacht. In fact, I wonder what the policy is on "trans" kids and the Gaeltacht? They might have a few problems getting Ban an Ti to accept boys in girls' houses - that's if they tell them of course.