News from the Changing Room

I would rather that teacher not have resigned (but stayed and averted his eyes) because who now is going to apply for that position (assuming the school hasn’t already filled it)?

adult women in the male changing rooms with the boys, and adult males in the female changing room with the girls.

I can't imagine anyone finding that appropriate. The policy at any changing room or restroom I've ever used is only very small children are allowed in the opposite one.

Utter madness.

Well that was fast:

https://pjmedia.com/parenting/jeff-sanders/2018/11/16/florida-school-orders-male-teacher-to-watch-transgender-girl-undress-in-the-boys-locker-room-n114001

"The school administration did not inform parents that a transgender girl (a female who thinks she is male) will now be allowed in the boys’ locker room. In September, the girl walked into the boys’ locker room while the boys were undressing. The girl literally caught them with their pants down. A male physical education teacher (who is also a coach at the school) was ordered to stand and monitor the situation. He refused, stating that he would not stand and watch a teenage girl undress. That teacher was told that his actions would not be tolerated and that he would be put on administrative leave. The female PE teacher’s objections to the policy were also ignored by the school."

Uniform, and fair enough. Changing rooms, and absolutely not. Alternative arrangements are entirely possible and there is no reason at all to throw every single girl under the bus like this.

The misrepresentation of the legislation - Ann Sinnott so needs this judicial review. If the GEO and EHRC are forced to advise all those they have misled on what the law actually says, we will see change.

Lily Madigan went to a Catholic school, St Simon Stock in Maidstone. They were forced to climb down and apologise to Madigan.

www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/schools-apology-to-transgender-pupil-104081/

Anyway,

Has anyone ever heard of a girl (who identifies as a boy) wanting to change in the boys' changing room? (Not including Catholic schools)

That's brilliant; suddenly I'm all in favour of Catholic schools.

It’s a Catholic school so I’d guess it would be the same scenario. I don’t know the answer.

Thank you for your reply.

The principal did the right thing.

Do you happen to know if the principal would've behaved the same way if it'd been a "mtf" child?

Excellent points. Another question to ask is whether any groups of girls and women are stating that they want to undress in front of random males? It never happens. But women's opinions & voices have been ignored from the getgo with this issue.

Malhala It's so sneaky, to have introduced it. This is how it works, otherwise there would be too many objections so it's often piggy backed onto something else.

The media are culpable. Do you have a regulator such as OFCOM. Is it worth writing to them regarding bias. If the media are not reporting this at all and therefore there is no debate, that is undemocratic.

I need to do the same thing here re sporting coverage (on my 'to do list'

There is a ftm child in my local secondary who wanted to change with the boys for a school show. The principal quite rightly provided a private dressing room for that child and there was a great backlash by a few pupils who were swiftly put in their place. I heard this from one of the mothers whose daughter was sat on for calling the principal a transphobe.

I’d be worried about parents who actually support their ftm children Changing with boys at such a young age.

Has anyone ever heard of a girl (who identifies as a boy) wanting to change in the boys' changing room?

Well done and thank-you for coming back and updating us

Well done! Definitely ask who the person with opposing views is before you meet. Might be worth having someone with you as back up?

Well done OP.

There isn't middle ground here. It's separating the one child's needs out from the girls' needs and dealing with them as two separate things, as they are.

The one male child does not wish to change with the boys. Absolutely fine. The child's identity and preference can absolutely be respected, facilities can be provided, this can be done in ways that ensure privacy, dignity, respect for this child's feelings and choices.

The male child cannot insist on being permitted to change with the girls, because this cannot be done without infringing on the girls' privacy, dignity and respect for their feelings. There is no other way to put it but that this would be making use of the girls - regardless of impact on them, because this does not look at their individual and collective rights and needs - to confirm and support the male child's identity.

Support the male child - yes absolutely, and this can and should be done. No child should ever be asked to undress in a situation where they do not feel safe, or that others are present in ways that make them feel loss of privacy and dignity. This just applies equally to female children.

Moving female children (excluding) out of female provision in order to enable someone male to use it, is not an acceptable solution, it's sexist, it ends the female facilities doing what they are intended to do which is meet all female needs, and it punishes and shames girls for having barriers like faith, culture, disability, trauma, boundaries, a sense of privacy. It also pressures girls to put up and shut up to avoid that shaming and exclusion, and may subject those girls to division and questioning of who can stay and who can't, which also involves the male child (I don't know how the child prefers to identify themselves, so this is factual rather than disrespectful) in a way that pressures them. It's divisive, it's unhelpful, it's causing bad feeling where there does not need to be any, and no child benefits from it.

The messages here: there is nothing wrong with identifying as trans, and children who do are respected and supported. Safeguarding is taken very seriously, as is child wellbeing, so no child will ever be asked to undress in a situation where they do not feel safe, or that the presence of others affects their privacy and dignity. This does include girls. It is not possible to change sex, and changing rooms must remain sex based. However alternative private facilities will always be offered in addition where a child would like this.

They are all a bit hiding behind towels anyway -- except one lady, who is Austrian and I supposed used to showing naked with other women.

Ha, not at my gym, there's an older Irish lady who brings a suitcase, and hangs around in her pants chatting to whoever else is there. Somehow, always sitting right in front of the locker I chose (NO MATTER WHICH ONE I CHOOSE!!!!)

My DS1 is 10, and has to go and change alone in the mens now - which he does find tricky and uncomfortable as he's got co-ordination issues (and I usually have to send him back to look for whatever he's left behind), it's crazy that we have to do that, yet they're actually suggesting any bloke who feels like it can wander in instead. I'm certain my gym would allow it too, despite there being no cubicles upstairs in the adult's bit, and only 2 downstairs where kids/families with a female parent change, and no cubicles at all in the mens according to DP/DS

I think most people would be horrified. The government must have known this too, hence the low key manner in which it was done.

It must be the most unwoke, backwards town in the whole of Ireland!

It would be ‘backwards’ if it prioritised none females over the rights of young girls and women.

It must be the most unwoke, backwards town in the whole of Ireland! The retired ladies would fall over in shock if a transwoman entered our shared changing room for aqua gymnastics and insisted on stripping naked with us. They are all a bit hiding behind towels anyway -- except one lady, who is Austrian and I supposed used to showing naked with other women.
It is simply not a law that would gain popularity in Ireland if it were actually made public. It's so sneaky, to have introduced it.

There's a girls' school in my Irish rather rural home town, which I can tell just by the uniform that they are strictly Catholic. The girls all wear skirts almost halfway down the calves and all look very frumpy. I honestly cannot imagine how a strictly Catholic co-ed school would deal with this. It is insane. I have the feeling that around here nobody has the least idea what is going on.